No gym for me

AlwaysComingHome

Obviously check it out with your legal advisor first.

Or just post the question on their Facebook page whether they segregate by sex or gender, and get them to clarify the answer if it’s vague. There are no legal implications if you are only asking the question.

Good point!

Prawnofthepatriarchy

I avoid FB like the plague but this is one situation where I may just break my own rule. I'm going to check in with my legal advisor whenever I drop off his cheesecake tomorrow and see what he says. Thanks for the suggestion!

Obviously check it out with your legal advisor first.

Or just post the question on their Facebook page whether they segregate by sex or gender, and get them to clarify the answer if it’s vague. There are no legal implications if you are only asking the question.

OhHolyJesus

Thank you 🤗😂

Would you be able to post on the gym's FB, StopThePlanet? Just something innocuous like "members might be interested to know that the gym's policy has changed..." And then explain. Because I bet a lot of women would object if they became aware of the new deal.

Obviously check it out with your legal advisor first.

Trans people should take note; this is how easily your rights will be disposed of when you have stopped being useful.

Yes I've thought that for a while myself. Give it 10 years and they won't be the media darlings any more, the law suits from detransitioners will be rolling in, and the money will have dried up. Then they'll give away their rights in the blink of an eye to stay relevant.

If your rights are legislated, you are not safe. Whether you're LGBT, POC, disabled, female, whatever. Men's rights are considered a priori. Ours only exist in laws that are written and upheld by our oppressors. This is why it'll never be enough to simply ask for an equal piece of the pie, we need to undo the whole bloody system.

So sorry this happened to you StopThePlanet I do hope all the cheesecake payments pay off and your friend has success with the complaint. The gym can go fuck themselves. I'm furious for you. I hope the TW in question gets his swinging dick caught somewhere.

CharlieParley

StopThePlanet So very sorry that happened to you. Your reaction was neither unkind nor over the top nor unjustified nor transphobic.

Thank you I keep telling myself that and I know it's true - my awesome 🙄 female socialization inside voice keeps picking away at that internal sense of security. Fortunately I'm one that operates from a pragmatic perspective so that little voice doesn't bother me too much.

Because displaying their penis is intimidating and they know that.

Yes! Because penises can be used as weapons and they are fully aware of that. We don't have equipment on us that allows us to exert a level of fear and power like they do and they know that to the core of their beings (whether consciously or not).

References to male genitalia I've heard/read: sword, tool, nail, WMD, machete, missile, and so many more. I can't think of one weaponized reference for women's genitalia.

Thanks Stop the Planet.

(I don’t know how to bold names)

Deliriumoftheendless

Stop the Planet there’s no reason to avoid full nudity in a single sex changing room.

First, no dig taken - you were very clear but thanks for the assurance.

I agree but I do avoid being fully nude (I have a very purple keloid scar on my pelvis - burned as a child). In the ten years I've been going to that gym I've never seen a woman fully nude in that locker room (except directly under a showerhead). If I saw ladies walking about with breasts out and bush exposed I still would have said "when in Rome" (because no lady is swinging a dick). Most ladies (at this gym) wear a towel after shower until at their locker and discreetly get dressed - they aren't hanging out with their goods on display a yard from other ladies. In my experience in the US this is common courtesy in locker rooms used by low to upper middle class women of all ages.

In the US in my experience clubs for upper class or affluent women (country clubs, membership-only spas, regular spas, etc) some women follow the gym common courtesy etiquette and some lounge about in their birthday suits - regardless of age.

I'm comfortable in both environments because I cover myself according to what makes me comfortable for my body. My naked body has been displayed without my consent or comfort on more than one occasion - I have an aversion to displaying it to unknown persons but have no issue with other women's nudity in close proximity. Men's nudity (beyond DH) I am not comfortable with in close proximity for many reasons (serious and silly).

By our I mean generically as females. I thankfully have never had to go to court for anything like this

queen

Yes we are blamed for what happens to us our clothes and past sexual encounters used against us in court. Yet we are being legally compelled to enter into these situations against our will, without our consent and when the inevitable happens its our fault.

Nice thing men have going there isnt it

The majority of men are not rapists either but we still split the sexes when necessary. We still constantly drill into women that they need to be careful and not put themselves in risky situations.

Legalised sexual harassment, abuse and gaslighting of women and children.

The whole thing is that simple!

StopThePlanet So very sorry that happened to you. Your reaction was neither unkind nor over the top nor unjustified nor transphobic.

I would have got an almighty fright too if a naked bloke had suddenly loomed behind me in the women's changing room. Depending on how frightened, I would have screamed and/or asked that pervert what the fuck he thought he was doing coming anywhere near me without his clothes on.

Now it may not be defined as flashing as per the gym's new rules, but it is intimidating, harassing behaviour nonetheless to react to someone who got a fright in the way that he did.

I would be interested to know what your state's laws say about this situation. The law may well consider it sexual harassment whatever the gym thinks. And I would think it worthwhile to consult a lawyer and eventually to contact the press about such an incident.

Right now the gym has the upper hand because you feel guilty for your perfectly natural and justified reaction (one could even argue that this is a perfectly logical trauma reaction for an assault victim), and because you want your money back.

But if the gym renewed your membership and did not inform you of the new terms, they may be in breach of contract. I do believe even in the US any changes to a contract (which the gym's T&Cs form a part of) need to be communicated to the other party.

These new conditions of the single-sex facility no longer being single-sex would presumably have prevented you from entering in this contract in the first place and would definitely have led to you not renewing had you known. It's a material change to the service they provide to you as a customer after all. So, I would at the very least get a lawyer to send the gym a letter arguing that. If you can afford it.

In any case, I have never come across a naked woman in a changing room behaving like this - walking up behind a complete stranger and then berating them for getting a fright, actually have never come across a naked woman walking up behind a complete stranger full stop.

What possible reason would there be not to call across from the other side of the room to get someone's attention for instance or for wrapping a towel around yourself first.

We always get dressed swiftly and full nudity is kept to an absolute minimum amount of time. No open staring, creeping up on others, stupid remarks or whatnot. Mostly not even any eye contact if I'm honest.

So this pervert - who from his behaviour of letting it all hang out in the women's changing room is either a straight up predator or an AGP with a relevant fetish or both - wanted to know what you were washing in the sink. Is that normal behaviour? No it isn't. It's fucking creepy and wildly inappropriate.

I hope you can find a different gym soon, one that is much less hostile to women.

I've been raped would this put me off? Yes it would do I care if people think I'm weak because I'm letting fear rule me? No I dont care because the good trans people the kind that mean it and really do take hormones and try and change themselves dont want to flash it in a public changing room they want to pass as a woman they need cubicles until there surgery is complete those I've no issue with the cross dressing predator type jumping on the trans bandwagon to gain access those scare me those are the ones I fear for good reasons

That's terrible, StopThePlanet. I'm so sorry that happened to you.

It's what so many of us have talked about, that a man in what should be women-only spaces can cause huge distress and fear without actually committing a crime. Because displaying their penis is intimidating and they know that.

What is it that makes someone who claims to be a woman behave in such a vile way towards women? I know the answer, of course. It's that "woman" to them is just pervy sexual cosplay.

This is not possible once they become mixed.
They don't have to become mixed. A man only has to say I'm a woman and he's there, walking around with swinging dong. And all we can do about it is leave.

Also Stop the Planet there’s no reason to avoid full nudity in a single sex changing room. My (very) old gym split the week into single sex days. Many women of all shapes and sizes would shower, sauna and walk about naked. I guess the men did the same on their days. Because we were only in with others of the same sex as us. (Also the showers were open).
This is not possible once they become mixed.

(I hope that doesn’t come across as a dig, because it’s not meant to).

StopthePlanet
That's truly awful and the reaction of the gym is despicable. If they did not notify you of the change before you renewed surely you can cancel?

I do not get naked in front of strange males, no normal female does.

I do not get naked in front of ANY male now that my husband has passed away. That includes my son, my son-in-law, male friends from way back when, husbands of my friends, my male neighbours, my daughter's father-in-law.

And you know what? MOST women don't get naked in front of strangers or even men close to them, except for their partners/lovers. They don't get naked, period, with males they are not in a relationship with. Revealing your naked body is an extremely intimate matter.

Similarly we don't want to see the naked bodies of males who are not our partners. So: just get out and stay out.

JessicaWakefieldSV
Thanks, it was awful!

scotsheather

How awful StopThePlanet. Fight for your refund all the way. If they refuse, it could be a good test case.

Don't worry I am! I have a friend who is an attorney drafting letters in exchange for a certain triple layer cheesecake I make (my recipe). According to him he hopes that this goes beyond the first round of letters because he has a list of desserts that he is going to require as payment. Works for me because I don't want to have to pay out-of-pocket if avoidable and I get the joy of baking/creation without the opportunity to eat the result.

How awful StopThePlanet. Fight for your refund all the way. If they refuse, it could be a good test case.