Eddy Izzard says women should be forced to share bathrooms with men

Especially a world where the majority of women appear to see no problem with this

Don't be silly. A hundred percent of the women on here disagree with you.

I see the word "terf" here all the time no, you don't.

It's not banned per se, but calling people a terf is, because it's a commonly used as a term of abuse for women.

Similarly you can discuss the term paki, but don't expect to get away with directing it towards groups or individuals. (Note I am not saying these words are equally offensive).

Peaches described herself as a terf, which is unlikely to get pulled.

Shame on me? For what exactly?

Not sure what your point is.

That's nice genuinely, but not reflective of the world we live in. Especially a world where the majority of women appear to see no problem with this.

Again, there have been enough abuse victims and people of faith prepared to share with men who have come forward in other online spaces to make it a moot point

You have no idea who anyone is online. They could be a dog.

Again, there have been enough abuse victims and people of faith prepared to share with men who have come forward in other online spaces to make it a moot point, all you get is 'we can, so if someone else can't it's not because of faith/abuse it's because transphobia

Where have you been to say that peaches? It's just not true in real life and it's awful that you even say that. Try living and working with, having friends from Muslim and other faith communities and you will know that sex segregation is a massive issue. It's complicated and difficult but I am repeatedly aghast at those who have so little respect for differences that they insist that this white / woke / tone deaf ideology is prioritised over all other groups. Shame on you.

I'm trying to find strong responses to the arguments I've been faced with, and it's actually a bit of a struggle, I haven't really.

Here we tend to think our consent is enough.

I see the word "terf" here all the time no, you don't. It's banned, see the moderator notes on the forum header. It does not affect user names.

For evidence trying to find strong responses to the arguments see OtepotiLilliane42 post above yours. I think it pretty much covers it.

Again, there have been enough abuse victims and people of faith prepared to share with men who have come forward in other online spaces to make it a moot point, all you get is 'we can, so if someone else can't it's not because of faith/abuse it's because transphobia'

I see the word "terf" here all the time, I didn't realise it was banned, people even have it in their usernames.

Fwiw, I don't want unisex toilets or to share with men either. But it's virtually illegal to say that elsewhere where everyone else is falling over themselves to accommodate new gender idealogues. I'm trying to find strong responses to the arguments I've been faced with, and it's actually a bit of a struggle, I haven't really.

Every bloody time these threads crop up those who like sharing toilets with men decide that the rest of us must live according to their preferences. We historically (and currently) segregate the sexes for intimate procedures. Those women who want to share toilets, showers and changing rooms with men - crack on. Head off to the men's facilities or the mixed sex facilities. Just stop insisting that the rest of us must follow your wishes.

And please lookatallthepeaches will you explain where those women who cannot undress / share toilets with men for faith / abuse reasons are now to go? Because none of you ever explain why these women should remove themselves from the public space? Or is that actually your motivation - alongside removing women's rights to choose sex segregated spaces?

My partner sits down to pee.

@Peaches: Is your husband a German? Many German boys are trained by their mums to sit to pee because they are tired of cleaning their pee splatter. They are called Sitzpinkler and it's a good thing. However, they are often mocked by their peers; it's seen as a sissy thing to do and has not really gained momentum. I think many return to standing.
It just doesn't work in wider society. And the splatter remains. Urinals help to reduce this; at least if there is splatter it is confined to that area.
Why would your husband want more splatter in the cubicles?

Anyway: my answer is and always has been NO. Stay out. I don't need to give a reason (though I have many).

OtepotiLilliane42 thanks for that link- it would be amazing if you send it to Eddie!

Every time I've been in a public toilet that is being cleaned by men, there is a sign up warning women entering that this is the case.

I

This is a really pertinent and well written conference paper by a C. Greed on the need for separate toilet provision for women and girls.

GREED140th WEDC International Conference, Loughborough, UK, 2017LOCAL ACTION WITH INTERNATIONAL COOPERATION TO IMPROVE AND SUSTAIN WATER, SANITATION AND HYGIENE SERVICES
Taking women’s ‘different’ bodily functions into account, particularlymenstruationin sanitation provisionC. Greed (UK)PAPER2601

Extract: Penultimate Paragraph

The way forward: learning points

As a basic principle, it is essential that gender considerations are taken into account at the highest decision-making level within sanitation and drainage authorities. The differences between women and men need to be acknowledged and accommodated for, in terms of toilet design, levels of provision and attention to the specific bodily functions of women. But gender must not be treated as an abstract disembodied concept, it must be related to the realities of the physiological differences between men and women,not least in terms of how they urinate, but also in relation to the specific needs created by menstruation, pregnancy, breast feeding, incontinence,inter alia. Many of these issues have still notbeen adequately taken on board in the West, and if you want to know the true position of women in society, look at the length of the queue for the ‘Ladies’.

I am seriously considering writing a letter to Mr Izzard via his UK agent to challenge him on his comments about toilet provisions, and will cite this paper, along with the many other articles and guidelines which are readily available on the internet for him to read, should he wish to educate himself on the subject.

pdfs.semanticscholar.org/2027/9dab18cfa8cb55aac6f0a72c25c54986b0f0.pdf

Sorry, sex based.

lookatallthepeaches

Just a heads up - the word terf is banned here, as it's a gender based slur.

Do you go to customer services and check that the cleaners are women only or do you just go for a pee?

Usually, when there's a male cleaner in the ladies' there is a sign up saying so. Then women have the choice of just going for a pee or waiting or finding another loo.

My answer is still NO.

Whataboutery

"Because they’re usually separated by sex, the first layer of protection comes from it not being acceptable for males to be anywhere near them" but as the links provided here demonstrated, there's just as much risk from single sex toilets that are cleaned by men.

Do you go to customer services and check that the cleaners are women only or do you just go for a pee?

Apologies as I have not read the full thread but I just wanted to say that over the weekend I was at the O2 for a concert and, as usual the queues for the women's toilets were ridiculous so we went in the virtually empty mens. The men in them had an absolute hissy fit and really were upset and called for staff to remove us. My point is that the average person does not want this, regardless of what sex they are.

"If toilets were fully enclosed cubicles, you'd start going to the loo as a pack. No way I'm letting my children (or myself) go alone into a space with men where they could be shoved into a cubicle and nobody would have any idea what was going on in there. Not just sexual predators but it's a bullies and drug dealers dream."

Disabled and parent child toilets exist like this already - I've never seen anyone go in as a pack or with anyone other than a carer. I don't believe that's likely.

The whole point is that you wouldn't be going into a space alone with men, nobody would go into one if someone is already there. It's not a big enough room to hide in.

If you cared to actually read my posts properly.

Oh I read them. You’re looking for some data on differences in design of toilets, which doesn’t exist largely because it’s irrelevant. The reasons for the risk unisex toilets pose should be pretty clear and have been discussed at length. Men shouldn’t be anywhere near a bathroom area that women use as that increases risk, of cameras, and of women and girls being pushed in and attacked. We have many layers of protection for women and girls when it comes to bathrooms & changing rooms. Because they’re usually separated by sex, the first layer of protection comes from it not being acceptable for males to be anywhere near them, that means if noticed it alerts others and it also means the perpetrator knows this. If that layer is taken away because everything is unisex, we lose a layer of protection.

But this is all redundant because the thread is about Eddie Izzard wanting to chat to people and have everyone lower their inhibitions around going to the toilet in private. That’s what he said. So I’m quite frustrated at having to debate what someone imagines he ‘must of meant’.

I don’t want to share any type of toilet with men. I don’t want to have to supply evidence or a long justification for this. I want to say NO, and have my boundaries respected, particularly on a feminist board.