Maya Forstater

The problem with current left wing identity politics is that it confuses the need to have respect with the need to have rights.

It’s more interested in punishing blasphemers than analysing the causes of inequality.

I can 100% understand that the ability to use public toilets enables participation in society and that without that people are excluded. It should be possible to have facilities for all.

However Stonewall are more interested in dying on the hill of a man’s right to use the toilet of his choice because on Tuesdays she wears nail varnish.

Loving the comments in support of Maya, Tom Harwood has been great in raising extra support 😂😂😂

Has politics declined - I think it has, with identity politics being used to shout down opposition critical thinking and common sense were pushed aside. Feelings have become more important than facts and people think they should not be offended. I think SM has played a big part in this as it allows for those offended to shout down enmasse the perceived enemy, something that is far harder to do in real life.

I don’t know who this Tom is but I absolutely can’t stand the twerp

Tom Harwood is mansplaining to feminists that self-id is a good thing because it means that men who want to use women's spaces can access medical treatment quicker

Here's Tom explaining feminism:

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=7mm9ujHMww8

prawn

I've often thought of the Profumo affair and the genuine shame that it provoked.

I can't help thinking it would barely get a mention today. Or he would be on Big Brother next week. Or she would.

Blackwhite...when applied to an opponent, means the habit of impudently claiming that black is white, in contradiction of the plain facts. Applied to party discipline it means a loyal willingness to say that black is white when party discipline demands this. But it means also the ability to believe that black is white, and more, to know that black is white, and to forget that one has ever believed the contrary.

Transwomen Are Women

But was it ever any better? Has there been a decline, or do we expect more now?

It's my perception that there's been a decline. I think of Profumo. After the scandal in which he was disgraced he left politics and volunteered for a charity for the rest of his life.

OK, he was unusual, but I think slightly more politicians in the past had a sense of public duty and valued what they saw as their personal honour/integrity.

Maybe I'm away with the fairies though..

YY Floral. Penis-centred in more ways than one.

I blame the fashion for favourite talking heads who are, by and large, entirely ignorant of the topics they're paid their fees to opine about

Agree. I think it’s supposed to create interesting TV, but the problem is they rely very heavily on a small group of people who seem constantly available and probably hang around outside the studios waiting for a call.

With so much competition there is a tendency to prioritise sound bites and conflict over information.

Very interesting point about identity politics in Caroline Criado Perez ‘s book.

She contends that we’ve always had identity politics, it’s just that up until about 30 years ago the only identity being catered for was white, rich man

But was it ever any better? Has there been a decline, or do we expect more now?

The obsession with identity politics and 'feeling' politicians has led to the decline. I'm not saying politicians should be unfeeling technocrats, but the absence of critical thinking is very worrying.

(As in, I rather suspect thats his general approach to women's rights in general...)

"He thinks it's all about the removal of the penis."

Slight ammendment.

Yeah, it's the age of opinion and over-confidence. No one is interested in facts. Tom Harwood is mansplaining to feminists that self-id is a good thing because it means that men who want to use women's spaces can access medical treatment quicker . The guy doesn't have the first idea about the modern trans movement or the feminist position on gender ideology or what self-id actually means. He thinks it's all about the removal of the penis.

Yes, we’re living in times when a politician says with a straight face ‘Britain has had enough of experts’

Yes Gove, we’d much rather that the ignorant and inept were in charge

But was it ever any better? Has there been a decline, or do we expect more now?

The panel were incapable of more than soundbites in the preceeding discussion on brexit. When challenged to actually give any detail neither of the two journalist guests could, they were simply repeating platitudes. So they are a bit of noise filler really.

Political reporting is atrocious everywhere but on the BBC in particular. I voted Remain but there is a perfectly good case for a left wing Brexit that has never been explained, for example. But it's the same with any issue. If you know a lot about a particular issue and then watch a BBC (or ITV, or Sky, or or or) political discussion on it, you will tear your hair out on how poor it is.

I think we notice on genderist issues because we do know all the details and so the biased framing sticks out a mile, but it is honestly the same with everything.

I blame the fashion for favourite talking heads who are, by and large, entirely ignorant of the topics they're paid their fees to opine about - for example, from what I can see, Ash Sarkar knows nothing about anything and is factually inaccurate every time she pops up. As are her click bait mirrors on the right.

But I also blame the root and branch failure of our media and political class. It is not fit for purpose.

The panel were incapable of more than soundbites in the preceeding discussion on brexit. When challenged to actually give any detail neither of the two journalist guests could, they were simply repeating platitudes

'On Truth' ( extract) from a collection of essays by George Orwell:

A party member is required, not only, to have the right opinions, but the right instincts. Many of the beliefs and attitudes demanded of him.......could not be stated without laying bare the contradictions inherent in Ingsoc ( prevailing orthodoxy). If he is a person naturally orthodox - a goodthinker -he will in all circumstances know, without taking thought, what is the true belief or the desirable emotion. But in any case elaborate mental training....makes him unwilling and unable to think too deeply on any subject whatever.

A party member is expected to have no private emotions, and no respite from enthusiasm. He is supposed to live in a continuous frenzy of hatred of foreign enemies and internal traitors. Speculations which might possibly induce a sceptical or rebellious attitude are killed in advance by his early acquired inner discipline. The first and simplest stage, which can be taught even to young children, is called Newspeak.

Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought.....failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc ( prevailing orthodoxy), and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity..........Blackwhite...when applied to an opponent, means the habit of impudently claiming that black is white, in contradiction of the plain facts. Applied to party discipline it means a loyal willingness to say that black is white when party discipline demands this. But it means also the ability to believe that black is white, and more, to know that black is white, and to forget that one has ever believed the contrary.

Tom harwood just motivated me to thing again.

I just thinged a second time too and I didn’t even watch the programme but reading this synopsis is enough

The panel were incapable of more than soundbites in the preceeding discussion on brexit. When challenged to actually give any detail neither of the two journalist guests could, they were simply repeating platitudes. So they are a bit of noise filler really.

At least the minister for employment said the case would be interesting and important without any twaw posturing.

The Green woman obviously wants us to believe in magical thinking on some subjects but not others... which doesn't do much for credibility at all.

If Molly Scott Cato struck that kind of attitude in the referendum debates then I'm not surprised Remain lost. Ignorant and pompous is a toxic combination.

The debate should have been “should gender critical beliefs be a firing offence”

Exactly. I am sure Maya can discuss her views at length, but that isn’t the point of the case.

YY. I'm afraid Scott Cato, who is standing in my area, won't be getting my vote. It will go to one of the Other Remain parties.

I noticed that Molly Scott Cato took control of the direction of the panel discussion to make a party political broadcast about the Green Party's stance on Trans rights. It was at this point that the panel was diverted to talk about the benefits of self i/d, I thought.

Absolutely. The debate should have been “should gender critical beliefs be a firing offence”, and an exploration of why so many people are horrified by Maya’s case that £60k in £25 donations has been raised in 2 days, NOT “are trans women women”, that wasn’t the topic up for discussion. Jo Coburn was completely ineffective as a chair.

Molly Scott Cato is widely lauded on anti-Brexit threads as a good MEP and voice of common sense, someone for remain voters to support in the upcoming elections. This appearance showed her to be either lacking in intelligence in not understanding the issue at hand, or an opportunist using the platform to parrot vaguely related policy and ignore the issue being raised. Neither of which is the kind of person I want representing me internationally.

I too thinged again after watching the programme.