Maya Forstater

I don't think greenlloon said they disagreed with the idea that gender critical feminism qualified, Ereshkigal. In fact they mentioned that there was precedent (which there has been).

A lurker here just wanting to say THANK YOU Maya you have my support and huge admiration - good luck!

I disagree fundamentally with what he said but unless we defend his right to say it we are screwed.

Yup. It’s really troubling me how many people agree with the ruling- he’s found guilty of high level breach ( remember in rugby circles guys that bash their wives typically miss 1 game and that’s it ). There was a point in history where atheists couldn’t speak out without persecution, now it’s the other way round. I’m atheist myself. The added racism I’ve seen about Pacific Islanders, including published in The Times I’m sorry to say, just makes it worse. Apparently we are uneducated and live in the dark ages back when we were colonised and western culture has evolved and we haven’t . You know, because we’re dumb and obviously there are no bigoted homophobic white westerners.

theres already precedent beliefs are protected as long as it is a belief and not an opinion or viewpoint based on the present state of information;
the belief is genuinely held;
the belief concerns a “weighty” and substantial aspect of human life and behaviour;
it is “worthy of respect in a democratic society”; and
it is held with “sufficient cogency, seriousness, cohesion and importance”.

Care to elucidate why you obviously think gender critical feminist beliefs about the oppressive nature of gender, the importance of female rights and a disbelief that men are women don't fit those and say, belief in a god would?

I have the same belief and struggling to see why it doesn't tick all those boxes.

The problem is there has been a disconnect about this for ages. It's the tipping point beyond the perfectly sensible and reasonable change in society perspectives on tolerance and prejudice.

Which is what usually happens when sensible ideas get filtered through a lowest common denominator lazy culture - we all agree prejudice is wrong and tolerating differences is how human society will function in the most equitable and free manner. It's an admirable goal.

But it takes compassion, intelligence and patience to achieve. We were managing quite well for a very short time, but, as so often happens, it was a lot easier to slip into using totalitarian compulsion and actual scorn which is why we have ridiculous self defeating arguments about 'Not tolerating intolerance' and namecalling instead of 'let's talk about why people view the world that way, how we can address their concerns, and how we can live peaceably if we simply don't ever agree.'

Rugby player Israel Folau is about to be sacked for what he thinks- or rather quoting the bible.

This. I disagree fundamentally with what he said but unless we defend his right to say it we are screwed. Once we hand the people who already have too much power the broad right to police our speech it is game over for any chance of a more equal and decent society.

Labour is a mess. Oh, and kinder, gentler politics? How hollow was that?

Incredibly so. I hope the people who thought LM would be a good figurehead for it are having a word with themselves. Stunningly poor judgement and lack of due diligence.

she is full of hate, all the usual stuff

When did 'I disagree with you' become 'hate' for pete's sake? The high drama and hyperbole isn't normal and you don't find this in the general populace. It's like being trapped in a never ending year 6 wet lunch break with hormones and flouncing. Can we please speak to a damn grown up?

I just wonder one thing: how stupid do you have to be not to understand the consequences of sacking people for what they think? well... Rugby player Israel Folau is about to be sacked for what he thinks- or rather quoting the bible. So I think we are, as a society, definitely in that place.

There are so many people on Twitter predictably tweeting that she deserved what she got, she denies trans people's right to exist (ffs), she is full of hate, all the usual stuff. I just wonder one thing: how stupid do you have to be not to understand the consequences of sacking people for what they think? Do they have no room in their tiny little brains for the concept that, if you start sacking people for thoughtcrime, then one day it might be evil Terfs, but the next it might be you?

I really wonder how it must feel to be that dim. Painful, I expect. (Or blissful, who knows?)

Thanks for the reply, Pencils, but it doesn't really answer my question. I didn't express myself very clearly.

I guess I'm thinking that CDC, having recognized how big and important the case is potentially, may try to prevent the case from going forward by offering Maya a lavish sum and a fulsome apology to settle out of court. And I know that, in some court cases, refusing to accept what the judge sees as ample compensation puts the plaintiff in a bad light.

I'm wondering if there's any way Maya's employer can prevent the case from going ahead. Anyone know?

I find it really scary that you need £60k for an employment tribunal. What chance does a boring old adult human female who finds her job mysteriously gone after she has a baby stand of challenging it?

Agree entirely. Justice is only for the rich in this country it seems. There might be laws against discrimination but if you can't afford to pursue a case legally (even if it's watertight) then employers can do what they want, particularly to low paid employees, without repercussions.

I find it really scary that you need £60k for an employment tribunal My brother got legal aid when he was sacked for being off sick by his flakey employer to get the pay that was owed him. It worries me that people struggle to do this now - there are many such flakey employers around.

Simon Fanshawe (co-founder of Stonewall) has tweeted his support to Maya.

Simon has been consistently reasoned, kind and thoughtful throughout this whole mess.

I find it really scary that you need £60k for an employment tribunal

What chance does a boring old adult human female who finds her job mysteriously gone after she has a baby stand of challenging it?

Can't be Rsed with the nonentity...…………

but really pleased to see over 55K supports in place for Maya's work.

The legal system takes a lot of getting one's head around. I think it has to go right to the top to set legal precedent, but if something is demonstrably within the law, is that necessary?

"And yes Misseyre its discrimination not unfair dismissal"

Thanks for the clarification. So whether or not a binding precedent is set about Equality Act (and I think that would only happen if this was appealed up to a higher court by the losing party) it won't create an authority on the issue of unfair dismissal.

Just getting my head round what it is and isn't about.

Best wishes, thanks for bringing the case, I've no doubt it's a complete nightmare.
Miss Eyre

FiredMaya you are magnificent - thank you for standing up for women, all women.

Absolutely this is an incredibly important case and what I love is that there are many women, including me, who have supported it financially and who will give again (and again) if costs rise and you need it.

Thank you

RedBarrows Please contact Sheri-Ann at [email protected] for any enquiries relating to the Bernie Grant Leadership Programme and women.
For all other queries please contact Sean Orrick at [email protected].
Apologies for derail

Just donated again. Thanks Lily xx

But Maya... you rock

Regarding Jess Phillips, YY to this

It doesn't matter how much of a trans ally you try to be, nothing you do is ever enough

As far as I know all she’s done is not flaccidly parrot TWAW

And that translates into being shit about trans issues

Pay attention politicians. Nothing will ever be enough.

If you read the comments on the thing we must not mention, Lily Madigan is responsible for lots of women offering support, often for a second time (this includes me and this time I even gave my name).

Don't give a single, solitary, shiny shit what Madigan says or does.

Do give many, jolly, hugely satisfying shits that Maya is being so wonderfully supported by so many women and also a good number of men.

To be clear, obviously the behaviour in response to Maya's case is relevant - all I'm saying is let's be aware of how much pigs enjoy rolling in mud, and how eager some of them are to drag you into it, and so be careful about how we reference the specific attention seeking.

Yes, some Twitter feeds are perfect little microcosms of the unthinking, abusive bullshit we've been talking about. Some of them are owned by people who would be banned in a heartbeat here for being totally GFs.

AngerResister Thank you so much. Could you post details for the correct person please? As another poster also wants to write.

Interesting that the LP commitment to women’s equality is so high that they keep the contact details up to date.... not.

Sorry if this seems a de-rail from Maya’s fight. I think alerting our major parties to what is going on is important. This case is going to be THE most important in setting a precedent and the political parties need to sit up and take notice, lest they find themselves on the wrong side if the legal curve. The suppression of free speech, the tacit agreement that some women are more equal than others in the constant amplification of the Trans voice over GC voice , are all contained in the storm in a toxic teacup that is LM’s Twitter.

All the political parties have ground to make up in supporting women’s rights, and now is the time.