A Trans Former Editor At The Times Is Suing For Transphobic Bullying And Discrimination

Anyone got a share token for this old (2011) write up on the lawyer taking the case?

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i-tried-very-hard-to-be-male-but-it-just-didnt-work-out-nt8lk5cbxrf

The picture from the buzzfeed article made me do a google - I don’t know many middle aged women barristers who would wear that skirt and boot combo... presumably White thought more favourably of the Times 8 years ago!

If the summary of the tribunal case at the start of the article ("transphobic discrimination, harassment, victimisation and unfair dismissal on the grounds of gender reassignment") then O'Donnell is not making any claim of sex discrimination, and the discussion of "sexism" in the article (and here!) isn't really relevant.

I'm not a lawyer but my understanding is that this means O'Donnell will be seeking to prove less favourable treatment than a man without the "gender reassignment" characteristic.Because the "comparator" for a gender reassignment discrimination situation is someone of the same biological sex.

Did this person think they could just sign up for the "fun" dressing up part without all the bollocks women have to put up with?

In fairness, this has actually been the experience for most of the high profile MtF people. They must have been gutted to find they were actually getting treated "like a woman". Reminds me of the MtF who complained about not being allowed to study at an all male college. Like, welcome to the end point of your own campaign ffs. What did you think identifying your way into an oppressed class was going to be like?

I see another home goal.

This has the potential to seriously backfire on the trans lobbyists. If this person loses, The Times are liable to increase their reports on trans non men who use self ID and people’s fears on being considered transphobic to access women’s spaces for nefarious reasons.

Among those who congratulated Strudwick on his victory was journalist Paris Lee, who was recently announced as British Vogue‘s first transgender columnist. “Well done, thank you and shame on every single person who was in that room who is complicit in the media’s relentless bullying of trans people,” she wrote."

2013 Guardian article includes interview with Paris Lees who was working for Trans Media Action:

(extract)
"In 25 years, [James] Barrett has seen trans people become "a networked bunch" – more so than other people, he thinks – thanks to the internet. Lees, who also works for Trans Media Action, says social media is the "essential catalyst" for the transformation of trans people in society. "Society is in transition and we've woken up from the operation and there's no going back. We can't pretend that trans people don't exist any more," she says. "People have been taking the piss out of trans people for 60 years. The narrative on trans issues has been controlled by people who have no understanding of them. Social media is about us grabbing the narrative back and telling our own stories – this is our reality, this is what we go through and this is what matters to us." (continues)
www.theguardian.com/society/2013/jan/22/voices-from-trans-community-prejudice

TRans Media Action / OnRoad Media
www.onroadmedia.org.uk/work/trans-media-action-phase-2/

www.onroadmedia.org.uk/about/

As for the other aspect of what the paper publishes. That could be fun - every woman working on a newspaper/magazine could bring a claim about the sexist, misogynistic crap churned out on a daily basis. This could be a turning point for women.......

Interesting that this point seems to have missed Patrick Strudwick entirely.

Strudwick also has history criticising Janice Turner (Times journalist)

Pink News coverage of December 2018 journalism awards to Janice Turner & Patrick Strudwick:

'Columnist Janice Turner wins award, sparking controversy about trans rights'
(extract)
Openly gay MP Stephen Doughty has criticised the choice of awarding a journalism award to columnist Janice Turner in virtue of her role in “whipping up inflammatory prejudice against transgender people.”

British Journalism Awards organisers Press Gazette awarded Janice Turner the prize for comment journalism of the year at a ceremony on Monday.

The prize, which considered submissions published between September 2017 and August 2018, rewarded journalists who “brought new ideas and thinking to bear when discussing a matter of public interest.”

Turner, whose work is regularly published in the The Times and The Sunday Times newspapers, has faced criticism from LGBT+ campaigners and the trans community." (continues)

Journalist Patrick Strudwick, LGBT editor at BuzFeed UK, denounced the British media attacks against transgender people while accepting his award for Specialist Journalism.

“I never thought I could be a journalist. Growing up I would read what newspapers said about people like me: that we were ‘poofers’, a danger to children, that we deserved to die of AIDS.

“Now the media has another scapegoat, another target: transgender people. I worry deeply about the effect this has on trans people. I think that we can sing better songs,” he said in his speech, which he quoted on Twitter.

“Last night after my acceptance speech, so many journalists, mostly women, came up to say that they too are appalled by the transphobia on Fleet Street, that trans-exclusionary feminists do not speak for them,” he later added, thanking those who approached him.

Among those who congratulated Strudwick on his victory was journalist Paris Lee, who was recently announced as British Vogue‘s first transgender columnist. “Well done, thank you and shame on every single person who was in that room who is complicit in the media’s relentless bullying of trans people,” she wrote."
www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/12/11/times-janice-turner-award-trans-rights/

I suspect it’s a concerted effort by TRAs to silence publications that they haven’t hitherto managed to roll over by their threats and bullying.

This will be very interesting indeed because the press in general aren’t very keen on having their free speech curtailed. Also one would have to examine the content of the output the complainant is concerned about, and whether it is actually transphobic or whether it’s based in fact, or the opinion of the author. As we already know the TRAs have a hard time distinguishing between facts and hate, and an unshakable belief that their opinion is the only right and true opinion and that no one else should be allowed to speak. Unless the panel is made up of TRA they might have a jolting ‘fall into reality.’

Bullying - very probably , Transphobia - quite possibly ... But

"MacLeod encouraged her to write to the executive to raise her concerns. “Angus cried and said he was very sorry and felt he had let me down,”"

Angus MacLeod - in tears? Don't believe it.

Well there will be no shortage of "expert" witnesses who the Times will be able to call to talk about the realities of life as a woman in the workplace. Did this person think they could just sign up for the "fun" dressing up part without all the bollocks women have to put up with?

As for the other aspect of what the paper publishes. That could be fun - every woman working on a newspaper/magazine could bring a claim about the sexist, misogynistic crap churned out on a daily basis. This could be a turning point for women.......

Difficult and abrasive are terms frequently used to describe women in the workplace who stand their ground.”

"Difficult fficult and abrasive" are used to describe people who are difficult and abrasive.I used exactly those words this week to describe the puzzling behaviour by a male solicitor on the other side of a transaction being made difficult by such behaviour.

Yes, I'm glad they've gone after the Times as they have deep pockets and this needs fighting.

I’m also glad TRAs are going after companies with the money to fight back instead of soft-targets like self-employed beauticians. Bring it on!

I’m glad they are bringing the case, and I can’t wait to see Harrop’s meltdown when the judge rules in favour of science.

I wonder if O’Donnell ever stood up for any women suffering the same treatment up until transitioning?

YY, I noted that O'Donnell claimed sexism as well as transphobia.

Link to thread.

twitter.com/adrianharrop/status/1124583106500014080?s=21

Maybe it's just FWR, or greater awareness but it seems as if there has been a lot of these cases in the past year or so.

There's also been a lot going on behind the scenes with regards media lobbying/education by TRAs eg Trans Media Watch, All About Trans etc

www.allabouttrans.org.uk/about/resources/

www.transmediawatch.org/

Maybe lesbians at the Guardian and the BBC ought to do the same over their endorsement of lesbophobic views.

Someone who identifies as a lawyer now being a Dr isn't working out is waxing lyrical re the legal implications.

I wonder if O’Donnell ever stood up for any women suffering the same treatment up until transitioning?

There are ongoing challenges against the Times by some prominant TRAs.

Home Affairs Committee on Hate Crimes reported by James Kirkup in Spectator:

May 2018 'Why are some MPs trying to shut down the transgender debate?'

(extract)
The other column that Doughty was so interested in also concerned children. In particular, he was struck by the Times’ headline using the phrase “trans lobby”. This, for reference, was on a column that argued that a number of changes in policy and convention are being made at the urging of groups advocating things that they say would benefit transgender people which, the columnist suggested, were not in the best interests of children. “You will understand why that is a particular concern, given the previous use of “gay lobby”, “Jewish lobby” and all of those sorts of things,” Doughty said. “Do you think the use of the phrase “trans lobby” is an appropriate one?”

As it happens, Dr Carmichael in her lecture said some things that seem relevant here:

“Gender has become amazingly topical and we have to be really careful not to assume that anyone is exploring or questioning their gender is going to want to change their bodies in line with that. The extremes on either side are not helpful. We need to look at the grey areas in between. To do that we need to be able to talk and discuss these issues. All too often stakeholders become lobby groups.” (continues)

Doughty, meanwhile, describes as “extreme” and “hate material” an article which observes that some people lobbying for changes in the name of transgender people are advocating things that might not be in the best interests of children. I have never met Doughty but have generally heard good things about him from colleagues: bright, committed, thoughtful and so on. So I must assume that he was having an off day when the committee met last week. It happens to us all, after all.

Surely a bright, thoughtful chap like him didn’t mean to imply that it was his job as Member of Parliament to tell newspapers what they can and cannot write? Surely he had no intention of acting as if it is in any way appropriate for a politician to decide what is and is not acceptable for journalists to say, and how they say it? And I can only hope that it was by a simple accident that he singled out by name a female journalist and suggested that her employers stop her saying the things that she thinks – because Doughty happens not to like her saying those things? (continues)
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3233421-Home-Affairs-Committee-Hate-crime-enquiry-Newspaper-editors-interviewed

December2018 Edward Lord letter to Rebecca Brooks:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3459026-Edward-Lord-asking-the-Sunday-Times-to-censor-Andrew-Gilligan

May 2018 On Zoe O'Connell (LGBT+ Libdems/Stonewall) unfounded complaints against David Davies MP:
Andrew Gilligan comment, Zoe O'Connell also made "equally stupid" IPSO complaint against him:

twitter.com/mragilligan/status/1001830695466041344

to embedded IPSO judgement : [[www.ipso.co.uk/rulings-and-resolution-statements/ruling/?id=20177-17]]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3263172-Andrew-Gilligan-Latest-bullying-transgender-complaint-swiftly-rejected-by-parliamentary-standards-committee

Helen Belcher (Trans Media Watch) unfounded accusations against Janice Turner:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3569148-Vindication-for-Janice-Turner-IPSO-complaint-result

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3393577-Janice-Turner-accused-of-causing-trans-suicides

So if successful, what the Daily Mail publishes about e.g. Muslims would have to adhere to how employers have to behave towards their Muslim employees? This is definitely interesting. Almost certain to lose, I expect, as it would restrict what/ how things can be reported beyond recognition.

Oh dear. What a terrible shame.

Person wants to be treated like a woman. Is horrified when they are treated like a woman. Shocker.

The callous and dehumanising nature of the comments, however intended, left me feeling as if the floor had opened up beneath me and that I had fallen into a reality in which what these men really thought of me and people like me was revealed.”

Key phrase here ‘fallen into reality’.

Sounds like just another day for any woman in a male dominated office to me.
Yes it’s shit and I am sorry that this journalist had to deal with it (..exactly like her other female colleagues have to do..) but it’s definitely not an experience restricted to transwomen.

It might be illegal to refuse to hire someone who is trans on the basis they are trans but in the present climate would most employers risk it or would they find an excuse - any excuse - to hire someone else?