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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Transactivists deny Gender Dysphoria exists - The aim is to STOP kids having access to hormones and surgery.

56 replies

MoleSmokes · 02/05/2019 04:51

This does not fit with "follow the money" explanations for transactivism but fits much better with "queering society" theories.

"Being Trans just means saying you are Trans" is the ultimate aim, going by one of the Keynote Speeches at Epath 2019:

Full text here:
epath.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Dinah-Bons.pdf

My highlights bolded

Dinah Bons (strategic director TGEU)
“DEPATHOLOGISATION: OPPORTUNITIES AND CHALLENGES”
(What does depath mean and how it affects trans people’s health)

" . . . the World Health Organisation finally removed trans identities from the mental health disorders chapter in its latest edition of the International Classification of Diseases and included them in a new chapter called “Conditions related to Sexual Health”.

Let’s not forget that this change includes a diagnosis for children, Gender Incongruence in Childhood, contributing to their pathologisation when no medical treatment is needed.

We urge you to join our fight for this category (Gender Incongruence in Childhood) to be removed as soon as possible.

Nevertheless, this long-awaited change lays the foundation for a new era in which the rights and lives of trans people are valued and respected, and trans people are seen as what they really are, part of human diversity. This will ultimately assist trans people in exercising their right to self-determination at all levels.

We will be able to have our legal gender recognized without any kind of medical requirement."

" . . . When we see trans people in the media, their stories won’t always be about how we feel about our bodies, how terrible it is to be trans and how we desperately need to physically transition.

"I want to make note of trans-led grassroots health services providers, in the UK and in the Netherlands, that mark an important development.

(There is nothing further said about the UK but I am guessing that this relates to the decision by NHS Specialist Commissioning to set up "Trans Health Services" across the UK, with the first to be piloted in Manchester this year:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3556114-Greater-Manchester-Trans-Health-Service )

EPATH Conference Programme (featuring some familiar UK names on their usual soap-boxes):
epath.eu/conference-2019/program-overview/

I came across that EPATH speech after some ferreting around for references to the "European Network for the Investigation of Gender Incongruence (ENIGI)".

This was because I was originally going to post here about a recent article in Nature about ENIGI (I will do a separate post).

However, one paragraph in the Nature article jumped out at me:

"Although transgender issues are becoming more mainstream, the topic remains politically charged. The European groups sometimes encounter transgender activists who oppose any medical intervention — T’Sjoen says he has had talks disrupted by people arguing that transgender people should not give in to social pressure. Although that could be true for some people, he says, for others, “even if they were living somewhere on a desert island, they would still want to change their body”.

(The "European Groups" are, I think, trans-led Gender Clinics in Holland, Belgium, Germany and Norway.)

This suggests that non-dysphoric trans people (the non-binaries and "gender queer") are definitely seeking to take over the trans movement at the expense of dysphoric transsexuals.

Going back to that EPATH speech:

1) CHILDREN DO NOT NEED HORMONES OR SURGERY TO BE TRANS

Where does the massive rise of Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria (ROGD), especially among girls, fit in with this?

If it DOES fit in then the only explanation I can think of is horribly cynical.

How relieved would so many parents, public service funders and insurance companies be if . . . if the Trans lobby started advocating that childhood dysphoria does not exist and there is no need for hormones or surgery to be trans?

Cue: the end of ROGD as "Self-ID" is ushered in?

IF it is true that lots of kids are parroting pro-forma "right words" to get on the Trans Train to hormones and surgery then it is also true that they do not have dysphoria.

That is, that the massive rise, the clusters of kids in peer groups, etc. is due to "social contagion" . . . and the next "social contagion" to replace ROGD? The non-binary "no pain" path to "Gender Diversity"?

2) TRANS HEALTH SERVICES

Exactly what the Trans Lobby has persuaded the NHS to pilot this year.

Cue: redirect funds from Gender Identity Services to "Trans Health Services" - with some token funding left over for those annoying kids and adults, that tiny minority who have some vague, officially undiagnosable problem that some medics insist on referring to as "gender dysphoria" (the wrong-side-of-history transphobes!)?

3) NEW ERA - NON-MEDICALISED SELF-ID

Exactly what the Trans Lobby persuaded the Commons "Women and Equalities Committee" is the way to go?

Who would benefit from complete "depath" of Transgender Identities - soon to be renamed "Gender Diversity"?

It can't be the people profiting from sale of hormones and surgery because the argument is that they are not necessary . . . or is that just for children? The EPATH speech only argues for removing "Gender Incongruence in Childhood" as a Diagnostic Category.

If the idea is that in this "New Era" that Adults will still need access to a medical diagnosis and therefore a route to medical treatment . . . we know already who those adults are. They are men who want "feminising" hormones and surgery.

Is that still part of the Big Trans Plan??

I am having difficulty squaring the lack of any call to remove "ADULT Gender Incongruence" with statements about the "New Era" being one in which Trans people are happy with their bodies and do not need to physically transition, ie. transgender people deny gender dysphoria exists. (How very "dysphoriaphobic"!)

Apologies for the length of this post!

OP posts:
MoleSmokes · 02/05/2019 14:22

@KataraJean , @GenderFreeLass and @ChattyLion

I am not at all sure that the "New Era - Non-medicalised Trans" is confined to presenting as what we usually think of as "gender non-conforming" or to Blanchard-typology "transgenderism" of Autogynephilia and Androphilia.

If I am understanding it correctly, Dinah Bons is claiming in the EPATH speech that dysphoria does not exist, at least as far as children are concerned, ie. there are no feelings of "discomfort" from any bodily manifestation of natal sex nor of stereotypical "gendered presentation" that need to be "relieved" by body modification or changes to "presentation".

"Passing" would be a thing of the past, ie. "the wrong side of history"!

Where that leads is to the very thing that we have all been worrying about in terms of Self-ID, ie. that any man can claim legal status as female without the necessity for any changes to body, presentation or behaviour.

Maybe not even changing their names?

That would surely be an optional extra because everything is internalised? There would be no "transition" because, as we are already being told ad bloody infinitum "I was always a woman/man".

People like this would not be "sharing their transition" because they would not need to do anything more than change their legal status:
Pink News "Trans women share beautiful transition stories to inspire others" (see image attached)
archive.fo/Gt5BN

There are already people playing this game and we have been laughing at them as deluded or "chancers". We won't be laughing if the aim is to "queer" things to this extent, which is what the aim would seem to be as soon as you take dysphoria out of the equation.

Examples:

Jake A: obsessive, serial persecutor of women (image attached)

lolcow.wiki/wiki/Jake_Alley and
www.peaktrans.org/a-week-in-the-life-of/#ftoc-heading-1

JY: obsessive, serial persecutor of women (image attached)

archive.is/61UcI

(I think we can discount JY's current "woman face" piss-taking in order to enter a Beauty Contest.)

What is being presented in the EPATH speech is completely consistent with the messages being hammered home repeatedly by transactivists when they tell us they are women and men, not transwomen and transmen.

No wonder they want "Trans Health Services". They need medical science to bend to this mind-fuckery. Not in the sense of hormones and surgery to transition, but to deal with male and female sexed bodies identified by internalised "gender".

They have almost got all the terminology and concepts in place.

How long before before we see a single tick-box for "Cis Gender" replacing options for "Female" and "Male"? The sex distinction will be redundant when "Gender" becomes the primary concern and has already been stated.

Transactivists deny Gender Dysphoria exists - The aim is to STOP kids having access to hormones and surgery.
Transactivists deny Gender Dysphoria exists - The aim is to STOP kids having access to hormones and surgery.
Transactivists deny Gender Dysphoria exists - The aim is to STOP kids having access to hormones and surgery.
OP posts:
ChattyLion · 02/05/2019 08:26

So these advocates are at the same time saying ‘don’t medicalise us’ and also saying ‘but we want to medicalise ourselves, other adults, and children’? (This would at taxpayer expense in the UK via self-run services paid for by the NHS?)

The entitlement is amazing Hmm but meanwhile most people do believe that society wants to employ only trained doctors to do safe, effective, cost effective, properly regulated, funded, researched and monitored health care. That’s why we have professional medical people to give healthcare and why we have the whole NHS system that helps them to work effectively in the UK via GP surgeries, hospitals, NHS labs etc.

Genderfreelass · 02/05/2019 08:13

Interesting

I'm certainly in favour of NOT medicating and mutilating children.

I'm also very much in favour of presenting as you like and binning stereotypes.

I'm against removing sex as a protected class and allowing people to legally change sex.

I have concerns re querying society when it comes to safeguarding children from predators. Queer theory and trans ideology are certainly reminiscent of PIE.

In the 80s anyone could wear makeup, nail varnish, have colourful hair of any length but we didn't need the law changed! It is now perfectly acceptable to love and marry whom ever you please as long as both are consenting adults so this latest twist in TRA wants/demands seems a bit odd and therefore concerning. It really seems to only help the cross dressers and fetishists.

KataraJean · 02/05/2019 07:11

This is where I think things have got horribly confused.

It is a perfectly reasonable argument that people of either sex can present however they like, including in the societally gendered presentation of the other sex. In fact, hallelujah, take down gender stereotypes.

There is no reason why a person who wishes to present in the societally gendered way of the other sex should have to take hormones or have surgery to try to be the other sex. Just be themselves and dress and present how they wish.

The problem is the concept of gender identity replacing sex as the defining and important characteristic for the organisation of society. And the idea that you can be a gender and somehow wearing a certain set of clothes or having a certain name makes you a gender, rather than a person of one sex assuming the characteristics normally associated by society with the other sex.

There is absolutely no need for

A) individuals to have to take hormones and medication if they want to present in a different way than normally associated with their sex

B) that some people present in a different way than normally associated with their sex to mean that sex based protections should be dismantled.

The queering society point is interesting because the end point of the argument seems to be that anyone who presents or lives outwith gender stereotypes is trans. At what point does that then just become the new normal? If the trans umbrella is so wide as to encompass the majority of people, how do you queer that? Does queering society have an endpoint? And what about the fact that some social boundaries are there for a reason and queering them up could cause harm? Where are the ethics and academic responsibility in queer theory? (Genuine question - surely academics have a moral responsibility to think through the consequences of their theories?)

There are so many instances in law, policy and practice where woman and children seem to just be collateral damage. Once your eyes are open to that, it is hard to unsee.

MoleSmokes · 02/05/2019 06:30

@2BthatUnnoticed
"But the ability to change your legal sex|gender (?) based on a feeling? This will have impacts on others. Anyone who denies this is living in a privilege bubble."

It is already happening in Oregon, USA. Maybe elsewhere too. Nothing surprises me anymore about this lunacy.

womenarehuman.com/transgender-felon-applauds-name-sex-change-law-that-allowed-him-to-seal-his-record/

The Oregon form also lets people chose a new name and "seal the record" that they have changed name and legal sex. If they have criminal records or anything else nasty they would like to "put behind them" can hide their past by changing name and legal sex:

www.courts.oregon.gov/forms/Documents/Name%20and%20Sex%20Change%20Packet%20(Adult).pdf

OP posts:
2BthatUnnoticed · 02/05/2019 05:27

Anything that avoids unnecessary medicalisation is good. And I agree people should be free to identify however they want.

But the ability to change your legal sex|gender (?) based on a feeling? This will have impacts on others. Anyone who denies this is living in a privilege bubble.