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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Parliamentary committee Joanna Cherry SNP MP & QC challenge to Twitter representative about abuse of women / 'terf' / why sex is not protected characteristic

115 replies

R0wantrees · 01/05/2019 17:45

Human Rights Committee - EXTRACT
Wednesday 1 May 2019 Meeting started at 3.16pm, ended 4.52pm

parliamentlive.tv/event/index/0364bfc3-5adc-4aef-99bd-48c68daacc38?in=15:27:30&out=15:50:30

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Trousering · 02/05/2019 21:52

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/746107/Intimidation_follow_up_Twitter.docx&ved=2ahUKEwiIgJrD2_3hAhXzThUIHTifBJ8QFjASegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw1KWc110cdO3hKuKEdtZaJD" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/746107/Intimidation_follow_up_Twitter.docx&ved=2ahUKEwiIgJrD2_3hAhXzThUIHTifBJ8QFjASegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw1KWc110cdO3hKuKEdtZaJD
What Katy did last year in response to an enquiry.

SirVixofVixHall · 02/05/2019 21:27

Eleanor Scott writes very well, so clear and intelligent.

R0wantrees · 02/05/2019 21:10

Very good article by Eleanor Scott.

A new article here by @EleanorScott

eleanorscottarchaeology.com/els-blog/2019/5/2/penny-mordaunt-defence-secretary-has-theresa-may-replaced-one-liar-with-another

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SirVixofVixHall · 02/05/2019 17:22

Very good article by Eleanor Scott.
It seems to me as though the calibre of MPs just gets lower by the year. Where are the clever, decent, brave and true men and women ? There are only ego-driven idiots who patronise women in particular , but also the electorate as a whole.

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 02/05/2019 17:09

No please don't Latin I got what you meant by it and I completely agree! That's the look twitter were aiming for sending her. It would have been a very different tactic of they sent a white middle-aged man like most of their execs probably are, which twitter knew. So they sent her to sit there and say "I don't know about anything" instead. But Joanna very calmly and clearly made her points anyway. Great that she cgot her to concede that TERF is a "gendered" slur.

LatinforTelly · 02/05/2019 15:41

crumpet I completely agree! Sorry I'm not very good at expressing myself on this board which is why I mainly lurk and read! I'm saying I thought Twitter sending in a young woman rather than a senior male (or female, but particularly male given the subject matter) exec was a ploy through which it would be easier to make any MP look like a 'meanie'. I agree Joanna Cherry was calm, clever, logical and dispassionate. Sorry, I'll shut up now and go back to reading. Grin

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 02/05/2019 15:40

Yep, I have sent her a thank you card Smile

EmpressoftheMundane · 02/05/2019 15:24

Joanna Cherry is amazing.

BuzzPeakWankBobbly · 02/05/2019 15:09

Isn't it called "plausible deniability"?

So twitter bod can sit in the room and truthfully say she does not know xyz because she has previously deliberately absented herself from any discussions that may have informed her of it.

OvaHere · 02/05/2019 15:02

You'd think that someone with the job title 'Head of UK Government and Public Policy' might at least have basic knowledge of those things.

Apparently not.

crumpet · 02/05/2019 14:59

LatinforTelly, I don’t agree that Joanna came across as a big meanie at all - calm and factual, against which there was no defence possible.

crumpet · 02/05/2019 14:57

She was simply superb. Evicerated the Twitter lady.

Am only gutted that she is a Yes supporter, but found her hugely impressive both in the panel and also her responses on twitter.

LatinforTelly · 02/05/2019 13:55

I'm sure she is highly paid, Lizzie but her title sounds to me like a bollocks title for upper middle management PR.

It was a clever move on Twitter's part to put someone in the chair who had no real insight or authority regarding moderation decision-making and could only say 'I'll look into that'. As you point out, it keeps the discussion one step removed. It's known as a good negotiation tactic.

But it is also highly cynical and manipulative on Twitter's part. eg I'm sure it was also quite deliberate that in a discussion about online abuse against women, the person representing the big evil corporation was a young, pretty woman. More easy to look like the big meanie questioning her, isn't it? I'd have had more respect for them if they'd had a scintilla of moral fibre and put a senior (male) exec up there to defend their shitty moderation.

Oh I dunno, I know I'm ranting. It makes me really bloomin' cross. Pathetic, cowardly, big business.

R0wantrees · 02/05/2019 12:05

Katy Minshall, Twitter representative "Head of UK Government, Public Policy and Philanthropy, Twitter"

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LizzieSiddal · 02/05/2019 10:30

I really don’t feel sorry for the Twitter woman.
I suspect she’s a highly
paid person and she will have agreed to say “I’m not sure about that, I will get back to you”. It’s what all big corps do, in front of these committees. She was just doing her job.
I’ll bet she left there thinking she’d done a great job and would have been pats on the back from those in the Twitter offices.

R0wantrees · 02/05/2019 10:20

Tbh I thought sending in that young woman was just another act of misogyny on Twitter's behalf. Make one of your big male, moderator bully-boys take the flak, you absolute bunch of moral cowards.

My thoughts too. Also, the assurance from the Twitter representative to look into the 'gender balance' of moderators etc will not reveal the sex balance & could easily obscure misogyny.

Reuters October 2014
(extract)
"LOS ANGELES, Oct 7 (Reuters) - A senior Twitter engineer hailed as one of the most important gay or transgender people in the tech industry was sentenced on Tuesday to three years probation after pleading guilty to false imprisonment and domestic violence charges, San Francisco prosecutors said.

Dana Contreras, known professionally as Dana McCallum, was also ordered to attend 52 weeks of domestic violence classes and stay away from her wife, the victim in the case, as part of a plea deal with prosecutors.

Under that agreement prosecutors agreed to drop more serious rape charges against Contreras, 33, who was arrested in January after the attack, said Max Szabo, a spokesman for the San Francisco District Attorney’s Office." (continues)
www.reuters.com/article/usa-rape-sanfrancisco/corrected-twitter-engineer-lgbt-activist-pleads-guilty-to-domestic-violence-idUSL2N0S300920141008

further background 'Women are Human' June 2018 article:
(extract)
"San Franscisco, California – Dana Contreras is a prominent transgender community activist who was accused of forcefully entering a home and perpetrating a vicious rape.

At the time of the incident, Dana Contreras, who uses the name Dana McCallum professionally, was a senior engineer at Twitter, a company [DM] had worked for since 2010.

In January 2014, [McCallum] submitted a guilty plea to one count of domestic violence with corporal injury to the spouse, as well as to one count of false imprisonment.

McCallum "was commonly acknowledged as “one of the most important gay or transgender people in the tech industry.” Business Insider recognized [Dana] McCallum as “one of the geniuses behind Twitter.”
womenarehuman.com/trans-identified-twitter-engineer-rapes-his-wife-dana-mccallum/]]

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BuzzPeakWankBobbly · 02/05/2019 10:20

Tell her how grateful you are!

Joanna Cherry QC MP
House of Commons
London
SW1A 0AA

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 02/05/2019 09:47

Great article from James Kirkuk as always

And Flowers for Joanna Cherry. Brave, principled and smart woman

SarahTancredi · 02/05/2019 09:47

ewe

Which just proves that trans people can talk about Male violence because that's why they need to be with us but when women do we are offensive to trans people.. Hmm

Angryresister · 02/05/2019 09:45

Thank you Joanna for your clear questioning and continuing to bring back the discussion to women's sex protected rights. I hope she will be taking on the younger woke women in her party who maintain the delusional party line that TW ARE women. Eg Mhairi Black.

EweSurname · 02/05/2019 09:43

Sarah I think it's because the context of the tweet that was read out was to do with trans women.

Or at least, a lot of the "men are more violent" tweets that were deleted were from discussions about trans people so she might have assumed it was the case here (or actually knew the context of those specific tweets).

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theOtherPamAyres · 02/05/2019 09:42

I liked the lead up to the climax. The first questions to the witness were about the abuse directed at female politicians. The witness agreed that they had been targeted on the grounds of their female sex.

The next questions were about why Twitter did not recognise the protected characteristic of sex - despite admitting that the female sex was being targeted. The witness floundered and talked about protecting 'gender' and 'gender identity'.

Cherry persisted. No longer talking about politicians, she asked about the abuse and threats directed at feminists and other women. Why did Twitter not recognise and protect the female sex from abuse, violent images and threats? Why were women's complaints deemed to be unproven and not in breach of the rules? She illustrated her point with particular cases.

Later that evening, she published more screenshots of the abuse directed at her. As if to prove her point, TRAs responded with more abuse, threats and violent images of guns and weapons.

I wish that she was on the Womens' and Equality Committee instead of that useless self-proclaimed "Trans Ally" Anglea Crawley MP (SNP). JC is someone who challenges and probes, rather than someone who accepts guff and spin unquestioningly.

Love you Joanna! Flowers

SarahTancredi · 02/05/2019 09:39

Well that was a bit of a shit show really.

Never seen so many questions dodged in favour of pre moderated stock answersHmm

I actually felt sorry for the Twitter woman she has been trashed with a Job that no one can really train for properly because of the severe bias shown.

Really highlights what's going on doenst it.

And how utterly ridiculous when someone stated they condem abuse against trans people but dared ask about sex that they ve deemed hateful...

But of an own goal with the Twitter lady really. When discussing Male violence she went on to mention trans. No one was talking about the trans stuff then. So is she saying trans women are indeed Male? How did it get brought up?

LatinforTelly · 02/05/2019 09:34

I watched it last night. Joanna was brilliant.

Tbh I thought sending in that young woman was just another act of misogyny on Twitter's behalf. Make one of your big male, moderator bully-boys take the flak, you absolute bunch of moral cowards.

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