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Original poster

Rachel McKinnon weightlifting results compared to male and female powerlifters

118 replies

BuzzPeakWankBobbly · 30/04/2019 15:46

[LONG POST]

Rachel McKinnon has been publicly tweeting about their workout recently and then I fell down a rabbit hole of (also publicly available) statistics:

twitter.com/rachelvmckinnon/status/1122578451192602626

One of their lifts was stated as follows: "Doing low ROM deadlifts. 485lb singles" (220kg)

=========

WORKING ASSUMPTIONS FOR POST

  1. R McKinnon competes in the 35-44 age category for cycling, which is generally accepted as the starting “Masters” age range in sports.
  2. According to the velonews article (link at end) R McKinnon weighs around 200lbs (~88kg)
  3. R McKinnon may have only been doing “one rep max” which can be higher than part of a general lifting workout (although the tweet does say deadlifts (plural)).
  4. R McKinnon's tweet appears to mean a Romanian Deadlift, versus a Conventional Deadlift - which I think is what the British Powerlifting results are for (link at end). I don't believe the difference in lift is significant here though.

=========
So I looked at the British Powerlifting records for the entrants that match that as closely as possible:

  • For women this would be the 84+kg Masters group
    (note: this is the maximum weight grouping and includes all women that weight and over.)

  • For men, the 83kg Masters group
    (there are 2 further weight classes for men - 93kg and 105kg)

I have used the “2018 British Masters Classic Championships” results; then calculated the mean, median and mode for each class (links at end).

There were 13 entrants in the women’s 84+kg class and 15 entrants in the men’s 83kg class.

Women’s Best Deadlifts (84+kg): Mean: 161.5kg / Median: 150kg / Mode: 170kg, 150kg
(Individual “best deadlift”: 192.5 187.5 170 170 150 145 150 137.5 130 120 207.5 200 140)

Men’s Best Deadlifts (83kg): Mean: 214.8kg / Median: 210kg / Mode: 210kg, 200kg, 202.5kg
(Individual “best deadlift”: 272.5 265 232.5 255 210 215 200 202.5 252.5 210 200 180 202.5 175 150)

-------
I then looked at the higher class men’s results as well:
Men’s Best Deadlifts (93kg): Mean: 212.5 / Median: 235 / Mode: 250
(Individual “best deadlift”: 250 235 220 235 240 250 222.5 237.5 210 180 250 237.5 250 185 245 16 150)

Men’s Best Deadlifts (105kg): Mean: 248 / Median: 237.5 Mode: 200
(Individual “best deadlift”: 323 302.5 260 230 200 237.5 255 225 200)

These results show that that R McKinnon’s tweeted lift falls in between the averages of the 93kg and 105kg classes, and completely outranks every British Powerlifting female's best efforts in 2018. Every. Single. One.

===================
Six months ago in the velonews article, Rachel McKinnon stated "My body produces next to no testosterone, and my levels are below the bottom of the average female range, to the point where they’re essentially undetectable" - which reads as if they believe they are virtually indistinguishable from females in terms of biological advantage.

So, er, right… No inherent male bodily or muscular advantage, yet able to lift more than all the female power lifters on their best lift in the 2018 British Powerlifting Masters Classic Championships? ALL OF THEM? And, somewhat amazingly, significantly more than most of the men’s bests as well?

This is why women's sport will be destroyed.

LINKS:
www.velonews.com/2018/10/news/commentary-the-complicated-case-of-transgender-cyclist-dr-rachel-mckinnon_480285

www.myprotein.com/thezone/training/deadlift-variations/

www.britishpowerlifting.org/documents/665_british_masters_classic_championships.pdf

www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/statistics/mean-median-mode.php

Rachel McKinnon weightlifting results compared to male and female powerlifters
OP posts:
GassyAss · 03/05/2019 15:41

Is RM coming over to say hi? That would be lovely. I’ve got a lot of questions to ask RM which I can’t do on twitter as the whole world has been blocked by RM

Original poster
BuzzPeakWankBobbly · 03/05/2019 15:33

Oh don't fret, there are definitely Eyes all over this board.

OP posts:
GirlDownUnder · 03/05/2019 15:18

BuzzPeakWankBobbly I’m so sorry. I’ve conjured as hard as poss., and RMcK still isn’t here.
As we are obvs. a coven of witches, I clearly fail. Shall I build a pyre?

My maths is pants too, so I can’t help there, but for ILove

Look at me
You can take it all because this face is free
Maybe next time use your eyes and look at me
I'm a drama queen if that's your thing baby
I can’t even do reality

2BthatUnnoticed · 03/05/2019 14:51

Two posters corrected the meaning of ROM early on. “Shitbags” represent.

Rachel McKinnon weightlifting results compared to male and female powerlifters
Rachel McKinnon weightlifting results compared to male and female powerlifters
ILoveMaxiBondi · 03/05/2019 14:18

*Look at me, look at me, look at meeeeeeeeee HEY WHY ARE YOU LOOKING AT ME?!i

Grin yep!

Original poster
BuzzPeakWankBobbly · 03/05/2019 13:39

And yes calpop very good point.

If those levels were so low, they'd barely be able to pick up their phone to tweet.

OP posts:
Original poster
BuzzPeakWankBobbly · 03/05/2019 13:37

Girldownunder to be fair I was looking for their take on the powerlifter Mary Gregory story on thread Mary Gregory power lifter

As the far more educated about this, non-shitbag, expert, I'm sure RM will be along any minute now to publicly comment on the response by Paul Bossi of the 100% Raw Powerlifting Federation, in relation to fellow tw Mary Gregory's claim to those female lifting records:

1. The lifter identifies as female, and so entered the contest (with no prior consultation with the Meet Director or (100% RAW officials). Our rules, and the basis of separating genders for competition, are based on physiological classification rather than identification. On the basis of all information presented to the Board of Directors for this particular case, the conclusion made, is that the correct physiological classification is male.
2. Since the lifter’s gender classification for the purpose of our rules is not consistent with female, no female records will be broken by these lifts.
3. The lifter was uncontested during the event therefore no female lifters were denied a place finish. The lifter will be placed in a different category once the Transgender Division is introduced with a new policy.

Yes, any minute now...

(H/T to an external website that shall remain nameless for the bulleted summary above, but more information and screengrabs here: fitnessvolt.com/transgender-athletes-world-record/amp/ )

Rachel McKinnon weightlifting results compared to male and female powerlifters
OP posts:
calpop · 03/05/2019 12:35

And also, if this is true:

Six months ago in the velonews article, Rachel McKinnon stated "My body produces next to no testosterone, and my levels are below the bottom of the average female range, to the point where they’re essentially undetectable" - which reads as if they believe they are virtually indistinguishable from females in terms of biological advantage.

Don't you think you should see a doctor?

SophoclesTheFox · 03/05/2019 11:29

Look at me, look at me, look at meeeeeeeeee HEY WHY ARE YOU LOOKING AT ME?! 🤣

If Buzz’s stats are so wrong, then let’s have the right ones, Rachel. What are you lifting for a straight 1 rep max DL, squat and bench press? Have you compared them to the average for women your age and do you see any differences? To what do you attribute those differences?

Don’t you think that transparency and honesty are the best ways to get your point across rather than name calling?

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 03/05/2019 11:26

sex

Yeah

I got deleted for laughing

It was funny though Grin

Sexnotgender · 03/05/2019 11:14

I see the thread police are out again. The deletions are so tedious.

GirlDownUnder · 03/05/2019 11:14

I know right Buzz, was so excited for you I've cross referenced threads here re RMcK in the hopes of enticing RMcK to come talk. You deserve more than mere acolytes.

In the mean time Brew to keep you toasty while waiting.

Original poster
BuzzPeakWankBobbly · 03/05/2019 09:47

I would venture to suggest a good hobby is "get your own records and stop stealing women's"

But then again I am but a mere shitbag who doesn't rely on having men agree with things I say to validate me.

OP posts:
Original poster
BuzzPeakWankBobbly · 03/05/2019 09:46

Eeeeeeeee I am famous! I shall duly await the hordes of RM acolytes to unleasy their fiery wrath of a thousands suns upon me.

Could you hurry it up please, getting a bit chilly here.

OP posts:
ILoveMaxiBondi · 03/05/2019 09:16

I may find the energy to scroll back later (not enough caffeine yet) but from what I recall the ROM was clarified on this thread as meaning low range of motion and not Romanian dead lift. Perhaps RMK is guilty of only reading so far themselves.

GirlDownUnder · 03/05/2019 09:02

OK so no, no maths from RMcK but another helpful commentator says we googled incorrectly - see screen attached shot.

Rachel McKinnon weightlifting results compared to male and female powerlifters
GirlDownUnder · 03/05/2019 08:59

Ummm I'll go look, but maybe RMcK could join MNs and tell us!?

They'd have to be a bit more judicious with their language cos I think name calling ie shitbags would be a deleteable offence?¿

ILoveMaxiBondi · 03/05/2019 08:54

Im blocked from RMKs twitter - does RMK happen to provide the correct math? Just so we can all speak accurately about this achievement.

dementedma · 03/05/2019 08:42

Others beat me to it on the Fallon Fox story. Where is it going to end?

GirlDownUnder · 03/05/2019 08:34

Hold the front page, news just in - RMcK says Transphobes on Mumsnet are really really stupid.

mobile.twitter.com/rachelvmckinnon/status/1124140651359162374

Low ROM = low range of motion, you shitbags. I was lifting the final 6" of the movement only.
Your math is hilariously off, and yet you're so proud of it. Get a better hobby than stalking me.

to be fair I was looking for their take on the powerlifter Mary Gregory story on thread Mary Gregory power lifter

Ereshkigal · 01/05/2019 13:45

I am waiting for the inevitable F up that will be a trans woman competing in boxing or other violence based thing. Maybe after a man saying he is a woman completely battering a woman in the ring it may cause outrage of a level where this idiocy will stop. Although there will be enough loud voices still claiming it is a woman (yeah right) and nothing wrong here.

Every ridiculous and misogynistic scenario that you can possibly conceive of, has already happened.

littlbrowndog · 01/05/2019 12:12

And are they going to be testing all women athletes and then demanding they take drugs to lower testosterone

So much wrong with this

littlbrowndog · 01/05/2019 12:10

Yes bowl totally agree. The testosterone thing a red herring

Should be biologically men and women

Bowlofbabelfish · 01/05/2019 12:08

Testosterone is the most important factor in explaining the difference.

male physiology is the most important factor. Testosterone is a proxy for that.

Bowlofbabelfish · 01/05/2019 12:07

I’m not so confident...The CAS decision in semenya’s case still allows testosterone up to 5nmol/l. That’s way outside the normal female range. If I went to my docs and they found that level of testosterone they’d be looking for serious issues. It’s too high.

This quote is also worrying because it’s using testosterone, not sex, as a differentiator.

“Historically the reason why we have separate male and female categories is that otherwise females would never win any medals,” he said. “Testosterone is the most important factor in explaining the difference. We are talking about females competing with levels similar to males. Very often it is more than 20 or 25nmol/L. So it is very high.”

MEN and women don’t compete - the IAAF need to be really clear on that. It’s not one homogenous bunch of people who can magically flip between Male/female categories depending on their testosterone levels. Men and women have physiological differences and testosterone is a secondary effect of that - NOT the primary driver. A man who has gone through Male puberty has permanent advantages, and reducing his testosterone does not magically make him aligned physiologically with the female category. The IAAF need to be very clear about that. I fear that by using testosterone levels like this they open up men entering women’s sports.

I need to read the whole judgement

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