Rape victims must hand over phone or police won't pursue crime

The fact that certain bias is checked for, for a start.

If i understand you correctly, the major bias is that the jury need to be sure beyond all reasonable doubt for a finding of guilt. Is that one area you'd like checked ?

I suspect if you know anything about the statistics for those two statements Grumpy, then you have reason to anticipate a pile on.

Goodness - can you imagine?

The victim once looked at porn so is permantly sexually available and incapable of being raped.

The victim signed off her texts with an x so was obviously gagging for it and therefore incapablw of being raped.

The victim had signed up to Tinder so...

The victim had 15 male friends in her address book so...

The victim sent a pissed off text to her mum which involved a swear word so...

I know I'm going to get piled on for this.
But I have to remind everybody that some women do lie about rape, and not all men accused of rape are guilty.

OK, that's it. Now I'm out of here until everybody has calmed down.

Basically acknowledgement of all the issues raised on here

The fact that certain bias is checked for, for a start.
Giving women far more support to charge their rapists, for another.
Excluding any other misleading blaming data about the victim for another.

The whole process is currently flawed.

Drat! "Systems designed by men for men ..."

Rape cases need to take an entirely different course in law

We're all ears....what you got in mind ?

It's not working, it doesn't work for women, its inherently biased against rape victims.

This ^^

Systems designed by men for always have such inherent bias ... and the men have no means of having any such awareness that this is the case!

What were all saying, and keeps being batted back with this is what happens type apologist rhetoric, is...

It's not working, it doesn't work for women, its inherently biased against raoe victims.

We know what it is and it needs to change.

Rape cases need to take an entirely different course in law.

It's really sickening when you look at the processes that protect men, that where theres a potential 'bias' i.e. a female cafcass officer is involved with determining male abuse, steps are put in place to ensure no bias, he's heard first, etc.

This only happened when men starting getting called on their abuses and having DC removed from being their 'property'

Now all the mras have got their way and continually women and DC die at their hands, as a result

I understand that this can be viewed as another way of saying 'we don't believe you' but crimes must be investigated sadly and are often done so with a blunt instrument.

You know what work to sell this to women? If we could see some actual times where phone evidence has been used to HELP their case. Instead of endless stories about women who hand over their phone only to either be victim blamed or have the evidence disbelieved....

I understand that this can be viewed as another way of saying 'we don't believe you' but crimes must be investigated sadly and are often done so with a blunt instrument.

Maybe the issue is what you call that "blunt instrument"?

Blunt instruments can harm people, as you know.

So, we need a justice system that avoids compounding any harm done to women by men.

As I said above, abuse of females is so ingrained in men that they have no means by which to have any awareness of this.

No, its rapists and their supporters, and colleagues in crime

I think what makes this is so difficult is that it's not unreasonable to think that location services or pictures or whatever might help a case. BUT>.... we all know that's not how it will work. ever. And so all those men who are ranting on about how the accused as the right to a defence etc completely and spectacularly miss the point while simultaneously basically finding a way to make it the woman's problem. Again.

Makes me mad.

I work in this field.

I think the papers have covered it terribly and surprisingly don't give the entire story.

I hope this doesn't put anyone off coming forward to report sexual assault or rape.

The stats are that the majority of rapes are committed by someone known to the victim. Therefore there may be evidence on the handset. Often there is an admission of guilt or the victim discussed what happens with friends after the event.
I understand that this can be viewed as another way of saying 'we don't believe you' but crimes must be investigated sadly and are often done so with a blunt instrument.

The victim will be asked to surrender their phone and can often wait while it is processed so we can minimise the time they are without it.
We really do our utmost to be supportive.

They can also consent to what data is shown in the report. So may just be data from the day, contact with the suspect etc.

The hysteria around this will hurt rape victims

The anger around this is because;

• It is illegal.
• It is coercion. (we wont prosecute unless you comply is coercion, which is a form of abuse, and compounds the abuse that has already taken place.)
• While a man can use 'we were in the same location' as evidence that he was raped, a woman cannot use evidence such as a witness who says 'he was raping her in a muddy field with his hands around her neck', or a phone recording of her rape. (This isn't hyperbole, these are actual cases).

It is not womens anger that is hurting rape victims.

"However, where there is potential evidence that helps or hinders the case. The Police need to disclose it. That is true with every crime. The hysteria around this will hurt rape victims."

[Note use of "hysteria"! So we know what we are dealing with here!]

Maybe the evidence requirements need to render sexual / medical / social history of any victim redundant in such cases?

Why is such history of any relevance with regard to the victim of any sexual offence?

When a woman can have a recording of herself being raped, and the guy gets off, when multiple women have been murdered and the men get off by claiming rough sex gone wrong. When a man can get off by claiming that he fell over and his penis went in the sleeping woman, then frankly, whether the coppers see the text messages on your phone or not is going to be irrelevant.

Perhaps the police need to work on their computer skills then, because I can get clean, easy to search and read dumps of my social messaging. Fully indexed and searchable. But until they can manage to successfully prosecute men who rape and murder women with apparent impunity, I'm going to assume that anything I say would end up being used against me, and would let a lawyer deal with it.

My point is what could there possibly be that matters when it comes to rape exactly?

Non-disclosure about what would actually make any difference to whether it was rape. Whether everything or nothing was disclosed apart from the moment the male raped?

This is why it has to change 'technicalities' in rape don't matter?

Smotheroffive

It's not the text messages that collapses the case it's the lack of disclosure. Unfortunately, for years the Police would not disclose evidence that helps the defence. This led to miscarriages of justice.

The information on a police download isn't a user friendly website. It generally is A4 sheets with gluts of text and code. Potentially a thousand pages. This won't be done as a matter of course for any crime, as the Police don't have the resources to interegate it.

However, where there is potential evidence that helps or hinders the case. The Police need to disclose it. That is true with every crime. The hysteria around this will hurt rape victims.

An abuse dynamic is complex to unpick, and it needs experts to run this service that purports to be for justice.

Exactly so ... and it seems abuse of females in so ingrained in men that they have absolutely no means by which to have any awareness of this. Hence, announcements like that made today.

We need a team of women to overhaul aspects of our justice system without any reference to any men.

Yes, but women who truly understand as not all do yet.

An abuse dynamic is complex to unpick, and it needs experts to run this service that purports to be for justice.

Oh great. Yup, absolutely no need for feminism in this day and age.

Seriously you couldn't make this up.

It works extremely well the justice system to shut victims down.

Indeed .. it is a justice system designed by men for men.

And that is the core point.

This is why our justice system with regard to sexual offences needs a complete redesign by women.

It's the same with 99% of porn, its perpetrators in action.