I've lost my daughter to trans activism

Good post Antibles some very valid points there. And a lot more likely than my befuddled ramblings.

Especially this
Nor do I think it is a coincidence that just as domestic violence has been criminalised and is infinitely less socially acceptable, that violence is finding its way into our bedrooms in the guise of sex.

FannyCan said.....

don't know what any of this means except it's everywhere!

I'm beginning to wonder if it is an extreme form of natural selection/population control , sterilising and/or messing with the sexuality of a generation. I often ramble on about the world being overpopulated but I didn't anticipate that somehow nature would pull a joke like this on the human race to address the problem.

Well as a theory it's no worse than some I've heard. I have always considered cultural Marxism a right wingers panic theory but re " The long march through the institution's" this madness is starting to fit the bill.

My mother has gone the same way. Once a gender critical woman she has fallen for this new trendy cause, because it is new and trendy. I firmly believe the novelty and the trendiness will fall off with time.
I wasn't a feminist in my 20's, I think I thought that earlier female generations just hadn't been trying hard enough.
I discovered the hard way that was nonsense.

I like the "why?" approach. Don't fight too hard, just try to prompt her to think through her belief system and bring it back to certainties rather than vague assumptions and what we know (as fact) thanks to science. Think of the ways in which your mind was changed. The ways in which you retaliate against being forced to deny actual material reality.

I only realised very recently that some educated and fairly bright people have genuinely started to think that trans women might actually have periods, for example. Seriously. A gentle reminder of what a period actually is helps with that one. The material differences between males and females: why differences are ok and should be discussed. That sort of thing.

If she thinks of herself as a feminist ask her about legal definitions and how we now measure impacts. Talk to her about discrimination of women - sexual objectification, expectations, treatment in the workplace (maternity leave/lack of promotion opportunities etc) How do we define marginalised groups and measure anything if everything is fluid? Ask her how she defines transwomen? What is a trans woman? If she goes down the "anyone who says they are" pathway she'll hopefully make her own connections about how that simply can't make any sense.

Maybe try to find out what she thinks the boundaries should be. Is it ok for children to share intimate spaces (leisure centres changing rooms) with people who are male and identify as women but present as fully male?

Find out if she thinks gender can be restrictive. What it means. What the rules are. If she follows those rules herself. Get logical rather than falling into the emotional - which is easy, I know that because I do it.

I've written a lot but that's mostly because I'm building a list in my own head for my own daughter should this day come. Good luck to you. I understand your fear and worries

Suffragettes were indeed seen as hysterical women - they still got shit done though, eh?

If it's any help I shouted TWAW back in the day, I didn't give one thought to what that meant to women and women's spaces. I also didn't always treat other women well. I admire people who have been feminists from a young age, I wasn't a rounded enough human being back then to be a feminist.

My eldest (a boy) is also a fresher. He has made a ‘gay transman’ friend (a butch heterosexual woman, in old money) who has outright told him ‘I just didn’t want to grow up to be a woman’ 😥

DS is largely on the other side of the ‘culture war’, considers himself to be a libertarian and thinks SJW types are nonsensical. He’s a bit of a lone voice amongst his peers but he has a girlfriend (who says his politics are ‘embarrassing’) and is ASD enough to not give much of a shit about being different.

DS thinks the infinity of genders stuff is ridiculous, but is OK with his new transman friend, because ‘whatever, not a big deal’.

When I asked if he thought it was ok for his friend to be in exclusively gay male spaces, spaces that are a legacy from an era where homosexual activity was illegal and punishable by chemical castration and imprisonment, he conceded that no, it probably wasn’t ok.

He thinks I’m a bit out of touch and sometimes threatens to change his insta bio to ‘Raised by Terves’ but I learned long ago that the best response to pretty much everything he comes up with is either to say ‘that’s nice dear’ and change the subject or laugh.

We must be doing OK because he just whatsapped me to ask if I will get a matching tattoo with him 😂
(and to ask for the Netflix log in 🙄)

Interesting but I think it's merely a new gaslighty tool men are using to get their sexual kinks normalised and to undermine women's sex-based rights.

How many of them would be saying they were women if women still didn't have the vote, weren't able to own property, were sold off into marriage under the promise to obey, rarely had economic power, no representation by female politicians, very few employment choices, couldn't compete in high level sport.

It's our very new freedoms and choices that make it such a cost-free decision for men to do this right now. They took quick advantage of our sexual freedom to 'free up' their own sexuality, in terms of what they demand or expect of women, and the normalisation of pornography.* Now the expanded trans concept is being used to invade our sex-segregated spaces, pressure lesbians into sleeping with them, and even stealing the very name 'woman' which we need in order to organise as a class against our oppression.

They just never STOP.

*Nor do I think it is a coincidence that just as domestic violence has been criminalised and is infinitely less socially acceptable, that violence is finding its way into our bedrooms in the guise of sex.

I've gone slightly off topic OP, sorry, but I'm going to post it anyway.

Here's their website: www.piqueresproject.com/blog/detransition-qa-1#

Here it is, this is worth watching IMO.

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=25&v=kxVmSGTgNxI

slipperywhensparticus apologies, I've just realised this is on your thread, not very useful for your situation.

Have you seen the Pique ReSistance Project? It's a group of detransitioned women (mostly or all lesbians I think), and they talk about their experiences.

They said, in their first video, that one of the things parents can do to help is to take them out of the situation to do other stuff not at all to do with gender. Not to say they're doing that, but just to try to keep their contact with the wider world and encourage any other interests they have. I'll find it, one sec...

It's not nature, it's the enemy of nature, capitalism.

It's quest to commodify everything continues, it likes to destroy natural things so it can sell new versions back to us.

It's currently commodifying the human body. If fertility is destroyed, that's a profit opportunity.

Martine Rothblatt, billionaire transwoman, bio-tech investor, lawyer and entrepeneur, sees transgenderism as the stepping stone to transhumanism. Transhumanists believe that the next step in human evolution is self-directed evolution, through the merging of humans and technology (eg nano-technology).

Martine hopes that, ultimately, he will work out how to download a human mind into software, this achieving immortality. He has an AI robot modelled on his wife. Yes this sounds bonkers, but he's serious. Here's his book on it.

Martine works within the capitalist system, there will be a lot of profit available on society's path to transhumanism, if he and his mates can convince everyone that's the way to go (they're doing a good job so far).

I wonder if in the future, there will be two types of people - cis and trans, but it'll have nothing to do with gender. Trans will be those with body modifications, who see themselves as super human, and cis will be the rest of us, without.

I don’t know if it can be blamed on nature.

now there's an interesting thought....

DH came home from work a few weeks ago with the news that one of his colleagues has a daughter who started uni last September and has now decided she is trans and is already seeking medical treatment ...poor man is in a state, it's come completely out of the blue.
Meanwhile I am awaiting the return of my own DD from her year abroad in Vancouver where she has done some gender studies modules. She has a brand new boyfriend who is at the same uni as her, here in the UK, but they only met over there. He has trans flags on his Facebook (yeah, I'm a Facebook stalker) and DD recently offered the interesting nugget of information that his older brother had a relationship with a trans woman except he didn't know he was trans at the time and they split up after the information came out and now he never talks about it.
I think I will have to keep mouth firmly shut when we meet.

I don't know what any of this means except it's everywhere!

I'm beginning to wonder if it is an extreme form of natural selection/population control , sterilising and/or messing with the sexuality of a generation. I often ramble on about the world being overpopulated but I didn't anticipate that somehow nature would pull a joke like this on the human race to address the problem.

'your daughter may feel she has to be seen to be parroting the 'right-think' to be fully accepted into university lesbian society'

This is not necessarily conscious thought by the way... atm she may actually believe the TWAW line and believe this is entirely her own thoroughly processed and well-considered belief.

She may not be able to see that it is risky for her to believe [and voice] another way of thinking, that this could make her vulnerable to personal attack as a confirmed 'bigot' if she does not parrot TWAW and 'Trans Rights are Human Rights' and that there is such a thing as the female penis.

FWIW if i was 18 and a first-year uni student I would probably do exactly the same. It is only now as a mid 40s women with children, adult firiends and a well established professional career that I feel somewhat brave enough to speak out about my disbelief in trans ideology. Even then I would always be very careful who I state my beliefs to as I do not want to be labelled a bigot in my professional life as I regularly work with the LGB community and have a personal and organisational reputation to uphold.

Tbh it may be difficult for her to have a different view at the moment. First year of uni is a huge transition for most young people irrespective of how intelligent and psychologically healthy they might be.
You daughter may be doing the equivalent of 'la la la, I can't hear you' as a way of keeping cognitive dissonance at bay and keeping in step with the 'right-think' of her peers.
I agree with PP who say stay calm and gently challenge her thinking ever so often so it doen't harden into unprocessed belief, i.e. would she consider a sexual relationship with a transwoman and if not, why not?
I don't think you have lost your daughter to TRA activism long term, just that the T has infiltrated the LGB community to such an extent that your daughter may feel she has to be seen to be parroting the 'right-think' to be fully accepted into university lesbian society.

Maybe show her this akd ask her how she feels about being gay having been re defined as same gender attracted by the very people founded to support them

I feel your pain
I have a DD who is bi and of all my DC she is the most vocal trans supporter. Partly I blame myself for raising them to be kind, non judgemental etc....and also for shielding them from the worst excesses of men, as far as I could. I don;t think they really know the worst excesses of male behaviour (NAMALT) and hence the need to preserve women's spaces.

There's no point in arguing. But there is a point in keeping communication flowing between you. Find something else to talk about. Good luck.

So long as she isn't studying "Gender Studies" or "Queer Theory" or anything like that... You're probably safe. It's a phase they're all going through at that age right now because to not go along with it, you get DIAF Terf scum comments which is far, far scarier if you go against the trend. Maybe she'll be receptive to looking at terfisaslur.com ask if she thinks all that's ok?

I remember my 1st year at uni too. The shit I believed. She's finding her way, it won't be permanent. She'll grow out of it.

Just help her with the practicalities of her actual chosen subject (hopefully not queer theory or gender studies??) and be supportive. Agree to disagree on TWAW.

I think I'd say that she is entitled to her views, but she has no right to minimize rape or dismiss the victims of sexual assault.

Sorry OP. Your frustration is palpable and totally understandable. I'd go with the succinct suggestions above.

I am appalled at the way universities are hothousing this illogical rubbish.

She may yet come round though. Experience tends to erode naive idealism eventually.

Well, yeah... gender is a social thing. Biological sex isn't though - and if your DD is a lesbian she will understand this in time.

Also, she really needs to actually meet Julia Long before denouncing her. Julia speaks common sense from her heart without judgement. No wonder she's so scary for some....

Youth is wasted on the young.

Sorry, just read that post where you say you have agreed to disagree.