Cisgender - the new teen insult

What are middle class parents doing to encourage all this? I know some of you won't want to hear it but I do wonder if gender neutral parenting is something of a gateway to this stuff. Most working class kids who've been brought up and encouraged to be stereotypical boys boys and girls girls just aren't into this trans stuff. It just isn't a thing in those schools, same with schools with large number of ethnic minorities.

My kids were brought up to play with what they wanted etc I guess vaguely gender neutral, are of the ages this is affecting and yet aren't buying into it. It's not so much I don't want to hear it as I just doubt gender neutral parenting is the catalyst and I strongly suspect the class aspect is a red herring. Plenty of working class girls will not be conforming to feminine stereotypes for a variety of reasons. I think this kind of thinking underestimates an entire class of people.

I suspect a lot of this is happening because we (school/social media/society in general) are teaching them about sexualities and gender identity before they are old enough to actually feel genuine sexual attraction. This leaves them mistaking admiration, or close friendships for romance.

I think this is a very insightful comment. Growing up is a confusing time and I was forever having crushes on girls, boys, teachers, folk on TV and in bands -all the while loathing my own body. Hormones and changes are tricky things to handle. If you fill kids up with all this information they can become confused with what to do with it and make assumptions about their feelings good and bad, and as we know, the desire to belong to a tribe is very strong in children and teens.

Speaking of that social contagion aspect I remember very well harmless and some harmful contagions among people at my school and in my age group. One of which was eating disorders and while there was a lot of lip service to this one or two of us succumbed in more harmful ways and became genuinely ill with hospital involvement. The local private school (which a friend of mine attended) even ended up weighing the girls regularly - I'm pretty sure that wasn't a helpful move but I think they were concerned. All of this points to the fact that young girls are often uncomfortable in their bodies (after all why wouldn't you be when society makes a point of criticising women's appearances as a matter of course) and desperate to belong to something while also being different and special. Frankly that period of a young girl's life (and perhaps a boys too but I don't have personal experience of that) is a perfect storm for the likes of gender ideology. I have to say if medical and mental health professionals can't see this then I doubt their professionalism and knowledge.

apologies

the last 2 links to the cult education forum take you to the forum index so you need to cut and paste if you want to access the relevant threads

The forum is well worth checking out though, lots of interesting stuff for anyone concerned about abuses against children and vulnerable adults

forum.culteducation.com/read.php?4,25390,25390

forum.culteducation.com/read.php?12,31516,31516

Also see

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20190122180443/www.triodos.co.uk/projects/osho-leela/1804" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20190122180443/www.triodos.co.uk/projects/osho-leela/1804

also see

www.quackometer.net/blog/2012/07/triodos-bank-that-likes-to-say-quack.html

Steiner schools make severely limiting TV and computer time a part of the school /parent contract. Does anyone know or have any statistics regarding numbers of trans youth in these schools? I just wonder if they are to some extent protected from all this and if statistics would bear that out?

I do not have any stats re your question, however

Triodos Bank is part of the Rudolph Steiner movement and its brand is of a forward thinking, ethical bank.

It actually funds lots of controversial religious movements across the spectrum including many groups that feature prominently in cult awareness websites and that have a long history of allegations of sexual and financial exploitation.

They also fund some women's groups and LGBTIQwhatever groups

If you are interested in the Steiner movement's stance on transgender issues an entity of interest is an entity called the Hivos-Triodos Fund that is being used to bankroll various transgender agendas including films

"Great awareness was raised on transgender issues due to a myriad of court cases by Hivos partner Transgender Education and Advocacy."

<a class="break-all" href="https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:mOr_KHz1SKcJ:www.hivos.org/assets/2019/02/Hivos-Annual-Report-2015.pdf+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:mOr_KHz1SKcJ:www.hivos.org/assets/2019/02/Hivos-Annual-Report-2015.pdf+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari

also see

<a class="break-all" href="https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:HbLPpdIKM58J:genderidentitywatch.com/2013/12/10/transgender-education-and-advocacy-kenya/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:HbLPpdIKM58J:genderidentitywatch.com/2013/12/10/transgender-education-and-advocacy-kenya/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari

and

<a class="break-all" href="https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:dFHJ9BBSBf4J:www.devex.com/organizations/transgender-education-and-advocacy-tea-115876+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:dFHJ9BBSBf4J:www.devex.com/organizations/transgender-education-and-advocacy-tea-115876+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari

Since when do working people stick more to gender stereotypes?? I think that's rubbish.
Plenty of working class girls play football and boys like food tech and cooking. It's just maybe that lower income people
a) can afford kids clothes from Asda etc, where boys and girls clothes are fairly gendered, and
b) they have more to worry about than clothing (like paying the bills).Although I have had several conversations in the past with , I guess, what you might call working class mothers about the crap ness of girls school shoes.

"What are middle class parents doing to encourage all this? I know some of you won't want to hear it but I do wonder if gender neutral parenting is something of a gateway to this stuff. Most working class kids who've been brought up and encouraged to be stereotypical boys boys and girls girls just aren't into this trans stuff. It just isn't a thing in those schools, same with schools with large number of ethnic minorities."

So, I've wondered something a little similar to this. I am no longer as sure as I used to be that it's important to let kids wear what they feel comfortable with in terms of gender presentation.

It's not that I think it's wrong to let them either. But my thought process on this started because it struck me that while some things may be best if they are not associated with one sex - a lot of jobs or careers, or housework - clothing is actually not that important a thing. As long as the clothing itself is fairly practical, people are not disadvantaged because men conventionally wear one colour and women another. For whatever reason, people and society like to have some cultural ways or noting sexual differences, and I suspect this isn't something that can be totally extinguished. Better that it be something like clothing styles rather than political representation.
And as far as just letting it be individual choice, that can work to an extent, but in order to have a convention at all it has to be recognised by the group, not individualistic.
It's occured to me even more recently though that in fighting for kids to be able to wear what they want, because that really expresses who they are, or to make totally individualistic assertions of their personality through clothing choices, seems to be a big part of what is going on in trans thinking.

It almost seems like telling Suzy she has to wear a blouse is really wrong, because somehow her essential personality is a t-shirt.
It wonder if the message kids get is that they need to express their authentic self through clothing and similar choices, and somehow not to do it denies their personhood. Social conventions have to be tailored to their essential individuality.
The fact is through most of human history, most people have had zero or almost zero choice about what they wore, and it really just was whatever was available. This did not stunt their personality or autonomy or anything like that.

I'm as straight as straight can be, but remember as a 12 year old at an all girls school getting a crush on a sixth former and thinking I may be gay.

Looking back, it was never a sexual thing. More admiration and longing to be like her. A few girls had crushes on this one particular older girl. It's definitely a thing!

And yes, one has an “out there” name, so I suspect he was always going to be special.

Why can't you name your children something different and also be gender critical? Why does that mean the parent want the child 'to be special'.

The whole 'being different' thing is currently ridiculous in its conformity to stereotypes.

Why can't you be a parent who just happens to like unusual names? Why do you have to conform to set names so you aren't mistaken for 'liberal identity types' who obviously believe in the gender fairy cos of the name they gave their kids?!

Jesus wept. The whole gender issue is about the conformity of stereotypes.

Don't make assumptions. Eagle's mother might well surprise you and own a dictionary tshirt. Charlotte's mother might condemn you as an evil bigot whilst they collect money for Mermaids on GoFund Me.

That's just a form of reverse snobbery.

Cis just rolls off the tongue so well, like a highly vitriolic hiss full of hate and superiority

SING ALONG NOW...

You're so CIS, you probably think this song is about you
But it's not, nothing is about you any more, losers.

I’ve asked around at work and hardly anyone has heard of the term ‘cis’.

I have a teen but it's not really a thing in our high school tbh. They have "learned" about gender a bit, and there's a lot of casual homophobia sadly, but I don't know of any kids who are saying they are trans.
In fact far from wanting to be special they all seem to desperately want to fit in-same trainers, same haircut, same school bags etc.

Oh she's doing so well! - Am having a proud mom moment

will read back this thread - just found it... Am in the kitchen listening to my just 16yr old DD making her GC points to her Dad....

That's an interesting (and terrifying, as I'm MC and white), viewpoint micaela64. I think you're right though. I'm very GC, but find I'm frequently the only one among who is prepared to speak out against mixed toilets, mixed changing rooms, and all this trans nonsense. I've lived in many places in my life (including London and a major city in another country that is well known for it's tolerance), and know quite a few gays/lesbians, and a few who are bisexual, but I've never knowingly met anyone who is trans, therefore I can't help feeling that this extremely vocal minority is vanishingly small. The figure in that article of 0.2 - 1% of the population is probably about right, so why is this trans agenda being forced down everyone's necks so vocally? Why is this tiny minority being allowed to be so vocal and strident and why is education being changed to allow them such a huge platform? I'm horrified that kids that are happy in their skins and feel normal and healthy as the boys and girls they were born as are being made to feel boring and that the term 'cis' has a) become a 'thing' and b) become an insult. I think we'll look back on this period of history as a time of utter madness and this 'trans' thing will be just another passing fad, but I really worry about the damage that is being done to our DC by trans-lobbyists with their pernicious agenda.

Actually, there seems to be quite a lot of trans identifying kids in the ‘looked after’ category, so it can’t be just posh kids - look at Aimee Challoner!

My DS’s kid isn’t middle class by the way. But the school is streamed so his form probably is.

Hmm I think lots of kids just take it all with a pinch of salt though. DS(12) is as liberal as a kid can be; gay uncle, gay big sister. He has two trans girls and a transboy in his form. At least of them seem to me, from a very brief observation, to be troubled, attention seeking kids. And yes, one has an “out there” name, so I suspect he was always going to be special.

DS and his mates are quite eye rolly about it all. No one seems to be mean or bullying but they definitely seem to find it a a bit tedious.

Only in middle class schools I can ensure you, as a teaching assistant who's worked in many skilled.

What are middle class parents doing to encourage all this? I know some of you won't want to hear it but I do wonder if gender neutral parenting is something of a gateway to this stuff. Most working class kids who've been brought up and encouraged to be stereotypical boys boys and girls girls just aren't into this trans stuff. It just isn't a thing in those schools, same with schools with large number of ethnic minorities.

You can disagree with me if you want but if you do so I'd like to hear your own thoughts on why it's mostly middle class white kids who get sucked into this stuff.

I would hate it if I were referred to as cis. My (batshit) dsis is a cahms consultant psychiatrist and insisted I am cis, but she isnt despite being female and in a hetero relationship because she hasn't got children and is the one who works out of her and her dh. I work too but apparently this is irrelevant. She was really keen on the whole transgender idea as she sees so many suicidal teens. She didn't have any GC view on this despite being very feminist. Go figure how pervasive this ideology is in institutions like the nhs.

I was also surprised how much of this gender shennanagins was going on in Sheffield according to teaching/ parents friends i was chatting to (primary as well as secondary). My two are only in primary school and there isnt a sniff of this. The school is seriously Catholic so I don't think they go overboard on the "gender spectrum" BS.

There does seem to be a lot of pressure. My daughter's elementary school had a rainbow Club, which parents didn't have to know about - the oldest kids there were 12 but most were finished at 11. Then at her middle school, there was a poster about how there were 111 genders. Both had multiple novels in the classroom about kids transing.

There was no sense that it is ok, maybe even best, to sit back and wait and see how things develop. In fact they seemed to teach the kids that there was no real development over adolescence, it was quite an essentialist view. So a lot of girls in particular tended to think they were bi in the early teen years.

Teenage platonic friendships are sometimes just as intense and passionate as romantic relationships. You meet new people and find yourself developing deeper and more meaningful bonds. You're going through puberty, and the world is alive with all these new feelings and your changing sense of self and all these synapses firing off in your growing malleable brain. It's a crazy, wonderful and often terrifying time.

Adding a whole new layer of "is your body the right one for your gender?" type of common social discussion just sounds like a terrible idea to me. You've quite enough to worry about. Social contagion is very real, teenage peer pressure is very real. I worry for teens today. A lot.