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Original poster

My complaint to Glasgow Life re sports centres

238 replies

ImNotNigel · 23/04/2019 22:08

( NC for obvious reasons )

Glasgow Life are the Council organisation that run sports centres in Glasgow. They have been in the papers about their policy of allowing men into women only facilities

www.heraldscotland.com/news/17588777.cross-dress-males-to-be-allowed-in-women-only-gym-sessions-in-glasgow/?ref=twtrec

I am a member so I went tonight to complaint to the manager at the local centre. He was a young man of around 30.

It took about 5 mins of patient questioning from me for him to admit it was indeed council policy. He kept maintaining that there were no mixed sex or unisex facilities, but eventually he acknowledged it.

So I asked him if I could go right then and use the male changing room, ( I’m an XX person for the avoidance of doubt ).

He told me no, because I wasn’t “going through the process of gender change”. Now the council policy specifically says this is not required, but decided not to argue this further.

I told him that I indentified as agender, which counted as trans. He looked very perplexed by this, and questioned me for another 5 mins, arguing that I wasn’t. Although he agreed that if I was, I could use the Male changing room.

He waxed lyrical about the individual cubicles for showers and changing ( within the Male changing room ). I checked that their was no requirement on me ( since I was identifying as male tonight ) to use these and I could walk around naked in the men’s changing room if I wanted to, and would this be fine.

He said “ We were told in our training that that would never happen, because you would be ashamed of your body”. So I asked if he was suggesting that I should be ashamed of my body.

He knew he was in a hole but he kept on digging.

Then he went for the sympathy vote, pointlessly appealing to my female socialisation . He tilted his head and declared

“ You know it’s hard for people like you and me to understand what it feels like to be trans and how hard it must be. So the council has to allowed them access, it’s the law”.

[ feeble attempt at forced teaming there too ]

I reminded him that I was trans myself and asked which law. He replied “ Well you know more that me as you have read up on it “ .

I asked about their Equality Impact Assessment and the about the effects on other centre users, who didn’t want to share showers and changing areas with a person of the opposite sex. He said “ Well they wouldn’t be the opposite sex would they ? “.

I guessed that was in his training too.

By the end he was losing his temper, so ( perhaps wisely ) said “ I’m not talking to you anymore, you need to speak to someone in legal”.

He went to reception to look up a number and said to his two female colleagues ( who were trying not to snigger ) “ For fucks sake, now she’s telling me she’s trans “.

I said “ I can’t believe you are questioning my gender identity. Please stop saying that, it’s very offensive “.

He threw a paper at me with a number and stormed off.

It was entertaining but rather unsatisfactory. I think I can guess who did their training.

So it’s the Council Legal Services tomorrow, that should be better.

And of course I will complain about being told that I’m not trans. Repeatedly.

I guess the training didn’t cover that bit.

OP posts:
Original poster
ImNotNigel · 01/05/2019 18:01

I’m also delighted to have received an apology from a senior manager for the way I was treated at the local sports centre.

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 01/05/2019 17:58

Brilliant, well done!

titchy · 01/05/2019 17:56

Excellent! Well done 👏

Original poster
ImNotNigel · 01/05/2019 17:55

Update - I had a long meeting with an Officer from Glasgow City Council. They are reviewing their policy as they have had a large number of complaints, many of which have raised similar issues.

So if any of you would like to complain, please do so. This policy covers all the Council owned buildings, art galleries and museums and these are used by many visitors to Glasgow, as well as Locals.

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SonicVersusGynaephobia · 28/04/2019 18:43

I suppose the 'good' thing about the policy is that they have specifically (according to the newspaper article) mentioned cross dressing - this will make it easier for people to say "WTF, I'm not having that!"

Yes, the unnecessary explicit inclusion of cross-dressers actually made me wonder if this policy was written by someone at GL/GCC who doesn't agree with it and was desperately trying to get The Message out.

Too optimistic?

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 27/04/2019 11:28

I suppose the 'good' thing about the policy is that they have specifically (according to the newspaper article) mentioned cross dressing - this will make it easier for people to say "WTF, I'm not having that!"

Yes I thought this was odd actually. Usually theres as much waffle as possible, especially when transactivist type groups have a hand in policy. We know crossdressers are classed as trans, but we say this and people think we are off it as no way would that be meant. Yet here, laid out bare, is the fact that crossdressing men are classed the same as like, transsexuals.

Original poster
ImNotNigel · 26/04/2019 22:09

Many schools send only girls or boys as the smaller council pools often have only one group changing room. So for example the girls go for a 6 week block and then the boys. At bigger pools they have changing villages with individual cubicles.

I think some schools prefer to use the group change because it’s easier to corral them all and they are less likely to lose items. I don’t need to tell you how slow they can be and there’s always a pressure to get ready for the time the bus is due to leave.

AFAIK the children use the toilets which are used by the general public . Parents will assume these are single sex.

OP posts:
ScottishDoll · 26/04/2019 22:05

forwomen.scot/

wgscotland.org.uk/

Original poster
ImNotNigel · 26/04/2019 22:00

Helpful document from Fair play for Women giving advice to service providers who want to provide female-only changing rooms.

fairplayforwomen.com/changing_rooms/?fbclid=IwAR1OQwgjLLrNbdvovPIIfadkWrHzFM7oOgFAvbhM3CBfkVmptnG3mZhvxdM

As you will see, GL are completely dishonest when they say that their policy is the law. Single sex changing rooms are perfectly legal.

OP posts:
missmartini · 26/04/2019 21:59

@BoomBoomsCousin

I'll be perfectly honest with you and I have no idea. I'm very naive into all this legislation and only just starting to really take on how much there is out there about this. I will do my research and see from there.

Primary 5 (9 year olds) are the ones who attend the lessons. I don't teach that stage and unsure how changing/ toilets work, I'll find out though.

BoomBoomsCousin · 26/04/2019 21:46

"I dare say that it wouldn't be very popular and the school may get some issues from the council if we had to say anything to the contrary of their policy. Any ideas?"

Does the legal requirement for schools to provide single sex toilet and washing facilities apply to Scotland as well as England and Wales? If so, maybe point that out to your school so they can use that when talking to the council?

TigerCubScout · 26/04/2019 21:43

I suppose the 'good' thing about the policy is that they have specifically (according to the newspaper article) mentioned cross dressing - this will make it easier for people to say "WTF, I'm not having that!"

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 26/04/2019 21:34

Not really surprising they haven't had any complaints if they aren't telling people.

Quite. And the people who do know about it, probably through reading the policy..also know that complaining can get them reported for a bloody hate crime. And people don't wish to have nonsense police interviews for wanting spaces free of penis? Colour me shocked!

TigerCubScout · 26/04/2019 21:30

2. Everyone who teaches at a Glasgow area school ( including private schools ) , because this will have to be factored into their risk assessment

Anyone with a child in a Glasgow school should ask the school if a risk assessment has been done - just a casual question. If a few parents from each school do it then the questions will be passed up the line.

Original poster
ImNotNigel · 26/04/2019 21:24

MissMartini

I’m sorry I don’t know the answer. But if you inform your HT, she needs to adjust the risk assessment accordingly. And if she doesn’t know how to do that, I assume she will ask the education department. Who I bet you a mars bar haven’t even considered this as an issue.

I’m assuming it’s P7s who change in a dedicated changing room just for your group but use the same toilets as the general public therefore potentially unisex. Like you, I’m wondering what parents will think about this .

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 26/04/2019 21:12

He replied that we don’t have to tell you.

Can he put that in writing? And sign it?

If he can't, why can't he?

Goosefoot · 26/04/2019 20:26

Not really surprising they haven't had any complaints if they aren't telling people.

missmartini · 26/04/2019 20:09

@ImNotNigel

First time posting on this board and wanted to thank you for making me aware of this. I teach in a Glasgow City Council school (stay in a different authority) and never realised this. One of classes attend swimming lessons at a local council pool. I'll be filling in the online form and informing my head teacher straight away for implications to our risk assessment. I also think it's imperative that our parents know about this also so they can make their feelings known to the council (if they do wish) I'm not sure how to do that yet coming from a school perspective. I dare say that it wouldn't be very popular and the school may get some issues from the council if we had to say anything to the contrary of their policy. Any ideas?

InTheHeatofLisbon · 26/04/2019 19:52

Sorry not open to any member of the public (guilty of not reading slowly enough!) NLs plan was to introduce self ID for toilets and changing rooms for pupils and staff.

That's what got squashed.

Datun · 26/04/2019 19:42

He replied that we don’t have to tell you.

Fucking A!!!

Is that going to be the response if someone gets assaulted?

JackyHolyoake · 26/04/2019 19:12

Someone needs to make Glasgow Life aware f Equality Act 2010, Schedule 3 [Services and public functions: exceptions],
Part 7 [Separate, single and concessionary services, etc] sections
26 [Separate services for the sexes],
27 [single sex services] and
28 [gender reassignment].

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/schedule/3

Original poster
ImNotNigel · 26/04/2019 19:11

Oh I totally missed that.

Honesty how stupid can you get! Invite all the local men in to pee with the school girls - what could possibly go wrong ?

OP posts:
InTheHeatofLisbon · 26/04/2019 18:52

I’d love to see the reaction if Glasgow city council suggested that all school toilets/ changing rooms should now be open to any member of the public of either sex to use as they wished.

North Lanarkshire tried that shit recently. They backtracked rapidly when challenged. Very fucking rapidly.

Original poster
ImNotNigel · 26/04/2019 18:44

Oh and I checked with some children’s sports organsisations who book this sports facility every week - they haven’t told them either. So it’s not covered in their risk Assessments.

This is an issue for their liability insurance . The Council self insure up to a certain amount but I’m sure as hell that the local sports clubs don’t.

OP posts:
Original poster
ImNotNigel · 26/04/2019 18:40

Indeed. Flabbergasted is a good word.

Until he told me two mins later that I wasn’t trans. Repeatedly.

Then I was even more flabbergasted. To be told this by beardy woke dude bro Council manager, who should know all about “ acceptance without exception”. Because I’m sure that was covered on the training .

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