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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

My complaint to Glasgow Life re sports centres

238 replies

ImNotNigel · 23/04/2019 22:08

( NC for obvious reasons )

Glasgow Life are the Council organisation that run sports centres in Glasgow. They have been in the papers about their policy of allowing men into women only facilities

www.heraldscotland.com/news/17588777.cross-dress-males-to-be-allowed-in-women-only-gym-sessions-in-glasgow/?ref=twtrec

I am a member so I went tonight to complaint to the manager at the local centre. He was a young man of around 30.

It took about 5 mins of patient questioning from me for him to admit it was indeed council policy. He kept maintaining that there were no mixed sex or unisex facilities, but eventually he acknowledged it.

So I asked him if I could go right then and use the male changing room, ( I’m an XX person for the avoidance of doubt ).

He told me no, because I wasn’t “going through the process of gender change”. Now the council policy specifically says this is not required, but decided not to argue this further.

I told him that I indentified as agender, which counted as trans. He looked very perplexed by this, and questioned me for another 5 mins, arguing that I wasn’t. Although he agreed that if I was, I could use the Male changing room.

He waxed lyrical about the individual cubicles for showers and changing ( within the Male changing room ). I checked that their was no requirement on me ( since I was identifying as male tonight ) to use these and I could walk around naked in the men’s changing room if I wanted to, and would this be fine.

He said “ We were told in our training that that would never happen, because you would be ashamed of your body”. So I asked if he was suggesting that I should be ashamed of my body.

He knew he was in a hole but he kept on digging.

Then he went for the sympathy vote, pointlessly appealing to my female socialisation . He tilted his head and declared

“ You know it’s hard for people like you and me to understand what it feels like to be trans and how hard it must be. So the council has to allowed them access, it’s the law”.

[ feeble attempt at forced teaming there too ]

I reminded him that I was trans myself and asked which law. He replied “ Well you know more that me as you have read up on it “ .

I asked about their Equality Impact Assessment and the about the effects on other centre users, who didn’t want to share showers and changing areas with a person of the opposite sex. He said “ Well they wouldn’t be the opposite sex would they ? “.

I guessed that was in his training too.

By the end he was losing his temper, so ( perhaps wisely ) said “ I’m not talking to you anymore, you need to speak to someone in legal”.

He went to reception to look up a number and said to his two female colleagues ( who were trying not to snigger ) “ For fucks sake, now she’s telling me she’s trans “.

I said “ I can’t believe you are questioning my gender identity. Please stop saying that, it’s very offensive “.

He threw a paper at me with a number and stormed off.

It was entertaining but rather unsatisfactory. I think I can guess who did their training.

So it’s the Council Legal Services tomorrow, that should be better.

And of course I will complain about being told that I’m not trans. Repeatedly.

I guess the training didn’t cover that bit.

OP posts:
Apollo440 · 01/05/2019 21:48

The TRAs will be whispering lies in their ears that this is a requirement of the 2010 Equality Act and pointing to numerous councils that have rewritten policy on that basis. Can you credibly counter this?

terryleather · 01/05/2019 21:21

Excellent work ImNotNigel!

KarenTheCashRegister · 01/05/2019 21:19

Well done Nigel.

CharlieParley · 01/05/2019 21:16

Telling response though to say that it wasn't meant to be public. TRAs really are determined to abolish our rights council by council, space by space in stealth. Creating facts on the ground that are much harder to rectify than preventing them from being created in the first place.

CharlieParley · 01/05/2019 21:13

Brilliant! Very well done and thank you for taking this on and persisting with it. Flowers

HumberElla · 01/05/2019 20:59

We need to rewrite it - it wasn’t meant to be a public document”.

How very revealing, I bet it wasn’t.

Huge well done to you NotNigel and thank you for this! I assume they will be updating you promptly with regard to the rewrite? I wonder how they will manage to uphold acceptance without exception whilst excluding Bob/Roberta on Two-Spirit-Tuesdays?

tempytemp · 01/05/2019 20:37

Great news! I really hope they see sense and come up with a better policy that works for everyone.

Genderfreelass · 01/05/2019 20:10

Fantastic news OP!

The article in the Herald must have help get a large number of complaints in addition to MNers. People reading the article would have had serious WTF moments and hopefully will now realise how far this farce really has gone! The more light that shines the more #peaktrans there will be 😊

ImNotNigel · 01/05/2019 20:07

I have now spoken to several officials from the Council and its clear to me that theres a huge gulf between

  • the people the staff think this policy applies to = the “genuine” dysphoric trans woman who has socially and probably medically “transitioned” , has a GRC and no desire to draw attention to themselves and ;
  • the people it actually applies to ( as written ) = everyone.
OP posts:
JackyHolyoake · 01/05/2019 19:49

It strikes me that Glasgow City Council needs to educate itself across the board about the difference between autogynephilic males and actual females.

Trousering · 01/05/2019 19:38

But including cross dressers is the whole point of the Gender identity restructuring the government have delegated to Stonewall.

What about poor old Phil Bunce. He's been promised this.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 01/05/2019 18:59

Wow! What a Star you are, Nigel!

“ Well although the policy says X it actually means Y. We need to rewrite it - it wasn’t meant to be a public document”.

Which sounds as if they'd decided to include cross dressers but to keep the policy secret.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 01/05/2019 18:31

Magnificent direct action Nigel

Flowers you wonderful woman

Michelleoftheresistance · 01/05/2019 18:29

Well done! Flowers

Cuntysnark · 01/05/2019 18:18

Excellent!

VickyEadie · 01/05/2019 18:17

They have obviously had a lot of public outrage about the cross dressing bit and they admit it hadn’t been thought through.

You see, this is what I do not get. "it hadn't been thought through" - that they were proposing to allow men into areas where women and girls are naked and vulnerable? Purely on the basis that they either say they are women or even merely that they like dressing in women's (sic) clothes?

Are the people who made this decision entirely thick, that they couldn't spend a few minutes just thinking about it? Before any policy change, when I led schools, I used to spend feckin' *hours' with my SLT, whole staff, governing body, etc. thinking through the ramifications, what could go wrong, risk assessing where appropriate, etc.

It's astonishing that these things are happening - not just in Glasgow, but all over the place.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 01/05/2019 18:15

It's unfortunate for them that they originally used "cross dressers" as presumably their new guidance will have to include details on how to tell a cross dresser from a trans person ...

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea · 01/05/2019 18:14

Wonderful OP. Just wonderful. So so so pleased.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 01/05/2019 18:14

Well - that's where 'Acceptance without exception' leads you. Every predator in the land assumes this means them!

ImNotNigel · 01/05/2019 18:12

They have obviously had a lot of public outrage about the cross dressing bit and they admit it hadn’t been thought through.

Which should of course be written on their foreheads with a sharpie.

OP posts:
truthisarevolutionaryact · 01/05/2019 18:09

Well done Nigel. Flowers
It just goes to show how pernicious this gaslighting and loosening of boundaries is when ordinary people (council workers, sportsmen/women etc) end up arguing that it's fine for cross dressing men to undress in front of women and children. They really believe that it's a legitimate position.

So glad that there has been an outbreak of common decency.

ImNotNigel · 01/05/2019 18:06

Regarding number of complaints - yes I noticed that too. Hardly any last Friday and now a large number. Funny that. It can’t all be MNers.

OP posts:
ImNotNigel · 01/05/2019 18:04

As MN FWR regulars say, sunlight has been very useful. There was a lot of back tracking in the form of

“ Well although the policy says X it actually means Y. We need to rewrite it - it wasn’t meant to be a public document”.

OP posts:
youllhavehadyourtea · 01/05/2019 18:04

they have had a large number of complaints,

Thought it was the opposite? Hmm

Brilliant work Nigel.

littlbrowndog · 01/05/2019 18:03

Good work Nigel