I thought I couldn't be shocked anymore (No Outsiders programme)

The biggest irony is that if children are aware that same sex relationships exist and are nothing to be ashamed of and homophobic bullying is tackled and sexism challenged - no more than that - it may help to avoid confusion over sex/gender in young children.

Repeal the GRA

"I’m loving the way that now that ‘transphobia’ has lost all meaning ‘homophobia’ is now being chucked about like confetti."

Love this. Transphobic seems to mean that you believe in scientific fact and place this higher than unsubstantiated belief. I'm rather proud to be one myself.

to know that some of their classmates might have two mums or dads and that's ok.

Should it not also be explained how "two dads" can have a child ... that it has to involve the use of a female body to create that child? That, if surrogacy is involved that this involves the buying of that child from a female who sold it to those men?

They're also bullying/brainwashing children with references to the law. Since when did teachers teach children about particular laws at primary school?

"In the plenary session of the lesson there are these notes for teachers:

‘Say,…..”What does British law say about gender identity?” Refer to the seven characteristics on the Equality Act poster. Say, “Which characteristic is relevant to this story? (Gender identity) Ask, “How can we make sure we are following the law at our school?”’ (A reminder: Gender Identity is not a protected characteristic.)"

The name salkeld rang a bell and I found this:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3298715/Children-young-FOUR-given-transgender-lessons-encourage-explore-gender-identities.html

I'm sure mine is an old fashioned view but I just want schools to teach kids about maths and geography and all the subjects I was crap at and can't teach them at home. I'm already telling my 3 year old son stories about a prince marrying his boyfriend and he sees one friend at nursery who has two mums. He is being raised in a family with a mum and a dad but it doesn't mean he doesn't see other family structures.

I was crap at maths and languages I really just want them to cover the bits I can't. Schools have no resources for the basics how can they be expected to do all this anyway? I really don't think they have their priorities straight!

I really don't think desire and pleasure should be covered in primary school, I'm not sure it wouldn't be horribly cringeworthy for teenagers. Teach them how to prevent teenage pregnancy and STDs/STIs sure, teach them the mechanics of sex, by all means but what and who you desire and how to please them, surely that's personal, it depends on an individual and should be what they explore in the privacy of their own bedroom and together ...do we need teachers doing that?

Like I said, maybe I'm old fashioned...it's good to read some background to this OP, all a bit suspect really, hope it gets more sunlight.

Where does pleasure come into the curriculum?

The aspect of No Outsiders that teaches that families come in various shapes and sizes seems innocuous to me, and is presented on this forum as common sense, although I expect conservative communities - not just Muslims in Birmingham - might object. Timmy lives with his mum and her new boyfriend; Lily has two dads; Ahmed lives with his grandma and auntie.

The part about 4 year olds being taught they can change sex is ... problematic.

But so much else is outwith the remit of No Outsiders, and risks getting caught up in the backlash too. The mechanics of reproduction need to be taught age-appropriately, from the correct names for parts of their body, to information about puberty, to how plants and animals and humans create the next generation.

Respect and relationships need to be taught explicitly, and modelled throughout a school's life. The schools have to deal with porn, since many parents are manifestly unable to.

But what about pleasure? Where, from age 4 to 18, are they taught that sex can be a source of pleasure? At what point are they told that, if and when they choose to be sexually active with someone else, both above the age of consent, it should be a mutually pleasurable experience? It doesn't have to be about love, but it shouldn't be about peer pressure, or boyfriend expectations, or performance, or anything like that. I fear that some girls expect to put up with pain. They shouldn't.

"At what cost do we deny children’s and teacher’s sexuality? What do we lose if desire and pleasure are banned from the classroom?"

My children are not growing up in a heterosexual family group and we have been to two gay/lesbian weddings in recent years. We are not remotely homophobic. But that quote has nothing to do with homosexuality and has a distinct whiff of paedophilia about it.

Children's bodies should be sexless FFS

I’m loving the way that now that ‘transphobia’ has lost all meaning ‘homophobia’ is now being chucked about like confetti.

It's very clever the conflation of two completely different things in order to try and shut down conversation

This thread demonstrates the dangerous trend towards homophobia in this forum

I’m loving the way that now that ‘transphobia’ has lost all meaning ‘homophobia’ is now being chucked about like confetti.

I’m pretty sure half this board IS gay

This thread demonstrates the dangerous trend towards homophobia in this forum.

Did you read the article and the particular aspects we are objecting to?

Do you think children should be taught they can change sex?

Skyzalimit

Non-issue at all with teachers being out at school and the all families are different, and boys can marry boys chat. But that's a bit different from:

the desexualisation of children’s and teacher’s bodies, the negation of pleasure and desire and the tendency to shy away from discussion of (sexual) bodily activity

and

What do we lose if desire and pleasure are banned from the classroom? What is the place of the research team members’ own bodies, desires and pleasures in this research?’

And

led team members to make repeated claims that this project in not about sex or desire – and that it is therefore not about bodies. Yet, at a very significant level that is exactly what it is about…”

And

Skyzalimit

Do you think children should be taught that they can change sex?

That was quick ItsAllGoingToBeFine always interesting to see what we’re not allowed to talk about!

I've asked for details of the reasoning - I don't understand why my genuinely held opinion about those specific excerpts was problematic.

This thread demonstrates the dangerous trend towards homophobia in this forum.

A couple of points:

How young is too young?

• Ask my 3 year old. He knows who we are. His nursery got a copy of Mummy Mama and Me and he sat hugging it in the book corner. Kids need to see themselves in the curriculum and to know that some of their classmates might have two mums or dads and that's ok.

Should teachers come out?

• well, should teachers avoid holding hands with their partners in Tescos where the kids in their community also shop? Or on the bus? Or should we be demonstrating that we are ok with who we are, so any kid who is a bit outside the norm can feel that this is an acceptable way to be, too?

I've actually seen many people talk about having sex ed in schools that talks about how to enjoy your sexuality. Which I find a bit bizarre, I just cannot see that as the right setting. But a lot of regular people seem to think it is a great idea.

"It’s regrettable that the objections to the trans content are getting mixed up old-school homophobia; it’s fine to tell children that some families have two mums/dads etc."

Clearly we can tell kids they might encounter all kinds of things, and it's important to be kind to everyone. That's an almost universal statement, I think.

I do wonder though if it isn't becoming clear that they isn't and maybe hasn't been for a while enough social consensus to make much more in terms of values statements, if we do actually want secular schools. And by secular I mean ones that haven't an agenda of their own but can teach students from all backgrounds without stepping on the various viewpoints represented in society.

It seems to me that with homophobia, aside from the evangelicals who tended to be loud, teaching a moral position on sexuality in public education has meant people with a quieter sort of religious life have kind of been run over - people like these Muslim families as an example. In a way they've almost been taken for granted as supporters of the liberal left without their thoughts being valued much.

Now that the trans issue has really divided the left in a big way, it's becoming clearer that things might not have been as cohesive as we thought.

That was quick ItsAllGoingToBeFine always interesting to see what we’re not allowed to talk about! No outsiders being one of them kind of proves the point in the article!

I had RE at school and our teachers said they couldn’t tell us their religions. We felt this was good and proper.

Why should teachers start talking about who they have relations with? Its bad enough all those movie and pop stars telling us, as if we need to know.

No, not homophobic, just I think that our private lives should be kept private.

Why not just raise them inside a kaleidoscope?