Feminism and Climate Change

It is odd how quickly the lust for buying unnecessary environmentally unfriendly shite has grown

3 words

Christmas fucking jumpers

I only buy loose tea.

I’d expect nothing less, Lass

It is odd how quickly the lust for buying unnecessary environmentally unfriendly shite has grown - and in parallel with understanding of climate change, pollution and extinctions. I can only conclude that most people are expert compartmentalisers.

I've recently been delighted to find a smaller size of unbleached paper coffee filter, to waste less. I realise I should forego paper filters completely, but the reusable plastic filter does a poor job. All of us have our compromises and draw our lines in different places

What's wrong with cafetieres? Bodrum make brilliant portable ones too which avoids using Starbucks et al.

Or one of those teabags that we have recently learned has plastic in

I only buy loose tea.

"Are you seriously suggesting that I’m not aware of that? Or just being really snarky?

It should be perfectly clear that I’m talking about people who are living in a city with decent public transport who are deciding, most of the time, to make a lifestyle choice that evidence strongly suggests is harming children."

People who don't bother are an issue, but not really what I was talking about.

There are a lot of people who practically have a very difficult time making the choices that need to be made, and the only solutions are collective. If a government decides to put in a carbon tax, and all of a sudden many people can't afford to drive, but have no good public transport, you are going to have not only pushback and resentment, but you eventually get real social unrest if nothing is done.
But there are a lot of governments that only want the market parts of the solution without making the appropriate public investments. And a lot of environmentalists will say things like, everyone should move into the city, or telecommute, without really understanding that those are not as sustainable as they think.
Even public transport shouldn't be the first priority in city, it should be having places where most people can live, with their family, and walk to their work. It would be a lot cheaper than extensive transit as well, it's economic artificialities that make it seem less so.

Good pointLassI think I meant "need" in a physical sense rather than thinking about emotional need as well. Lots of work doesn't physically need to be office based, but of course working outside the house has other benefits that many people need

Re not needing offices part of the emotional wellbeing of employees involves career and personal development. Mentoring and training junior colleagues is an essential part of my role. Their interaction with other colleagues and clients, getting to know them bouncing ideas and questions from them is a part of their professional development. That's not going to happen with everyone sitting at home.

Definitely need more rewilding.

David Attenborough gave four suggestions I think. Can anyone remember what they were?

Wilding the shit out of non-agricultural land would help. There’s plenty of space we could just stop insisting be so tidy.

Basically, I think a lot of people either don't know or don't believe, and many of those who do know either don't care or feel too apathetic/ powerless to change.

Where do you think belief comes into this? Surely there either is a scientific reason for making lifestyle changes or there isn't? This shouldn't be about beliefs.

Personally, I'm most concerned about things like this:
www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/10/plummeting-insect-numbers-threaten-collapse-of-nature

This won't be helped by turning vegetarian, unless you're eating pesticide-free organic food from small producers, or growing your own - it's intensive agriculture which is mainly responsible for the decline in insect populations.

Even if we did reduce our consumption in the west, China and India are raising theirs as living standards increase.

In 2000 10.5m overseas trips were made by Chinese residents. By 2017 it had risen to 145m – an 1,380 per cent increase. And who can blame them following our lead?

I wish I could see a way forward but I can’t at the moment.

Is a cafetière a bad alternative? (Not a coffee expert, may be a silly question.)

Nope, have never touched disposable pods.

I've recently been delighted to find a smaller size of unbleached paper coffee filter, to waste less. I realise I should forego paper filters completely, but the reusable plastic filter does a poor job. All of us have our compromises and draw our lines in different places.

And yeah, about plastic in teabags. I've been trying to get away from that for years – not least because I like to home-compost them.

Or one of those teabags that we have recently learned has plastic in

Perking I hope that's not from a disposable coffee pod

Just getting on what looks like really interesting thread, to make sure I read it later.

Here, have some so I haven't come empty-handed...

So many good points especially by KizzyWayfarer. Women will/already do bear the brunt of climate change disasters, as they are often the poorest in an area. Closer to home, women don't have equal rights now, and that's bad enough, but if society starts crumbling around us, our rights will be back to literally nothing. Rapes, beatings and murders will be an everyday thing for all of us.

If anyone has read the book Swan Song by Robert McCannon I fear it will be just like that.

The economics of children is interesting. They have become in our society an expense which we lavish resources on rather than an extra pair of hands which is what they are in agricultural societies. Interestingly, to keep on FWR point, this does persuade men in such societies that perhaps they need fewer of them.

Are you seriously suggesting that I’m not aware of that? Or just being really snarky?

It should be perfectly clear that I’m talking about people who are living in a city with decent public transport who are deciding, most of the time, to make a lifestyle choice that evidence strongly suggests is harming children.

Oh yes Goosefoot. I was only addressing OP's first point on population. Quite agree that while the West, as an example, has many populations now stable, we consume far more per head which causes different environmental problems. Both are major factors, both need addressing.

"Perfectly do-able in London, unless one deems maintaining a lifestyle exactly as it is - no compromises acceptable - to be more important than not harming one’s own children and everyone else’s children."

The vast majority of people in the world do not live in London.

Practically I think there are a lot of barriers. The car is a good example. Yes, we need to really cut this out, it may be that carbon taxes are the best way.
But - it is also the case that they could impact people who live rurally in an extreme way. Many city people believe that everyone should live in cities for environmental reasons, but there are a lot of good reasons that is not ideal - it's not very compatible with sustainable agriculture and healthy farming communities. Even people who live in suburbs could be in trouble in many places, and if they can't afford to get to work, what are they supposed to do? We needed to come up with real solutions, including building communities where we expect most people to live near their work, years ago, so we could make these choices now.

I've become skeptical at birth control as the answer. The west has a stable birth rate, generally, but we consume far more - these are connected. We have fewer children in part because we want to consume more and over the last few generations we've become used to this standard of living, we see it as normal. We have also now shown this to the world as something to aspire to and tell them if they have fewer children they could have the same.

And then, we somehow hope for an environmental solution that means we use new energy technology so we can consume at the same level without polluting. Which is simply impossible on so many levels, but even many environmentalists make that claim now. But it's remarkably similar to what people see with contraception - a technological solution which allows people to carry on having sex without having to become pregnant - what they are hoping for is a sort of consumerist equivalent. I don't think that is a way a thinking that will save us, quite the opposite. We need to become people who live within what the environment dictates, and if we can't, well, that is that.

I don't think we'll prevail without moving from capitalism. But if we don't find a way I suspect we might see autocratic governments supported by the military, mandated limits on childbearing and consumption, and a lot of other bad things.

I can genuinely see me not taking any more long-distance flights again though, which is a real heartbreak as I would love to experience global travel with my family - there's so much to learn out there.
Perhaps I need to start planning a carbon-neutral Eighty Days Around The World.

I think it's really easy to understand why people don't take action, it's because we will be making our immediate life harder, more expensive and less enjoyable.
Personally? We've given up one car but we still have my old diesel-sucking freelander because I need it for work and we can't afford a new one.
We're cutting down on the meat we eat, and only buying locally reared stuff. But I really enjoy eating meat, so we're only going half-arsed.
I'm going on two flights this year, when I normally don't do any, because we want to visit friends in the Channel Islands and it's more convenient than the ferry (plus I don't then have to drive aforementioned diesel-sucking car); but also because I want to go on a piss-up-in-a-villa weekend with my friends for our milestone birthday.
So I'm going to donate to #TrumpForest or similar to offset my carbon, when the best solution would be to make different choices. But I really really want to eat the meat and go on the holidays.
Perhaps next year we'll be veggie 5/7 days, and I definitely won't take any flights.