Another day, another friend insisting that THIS video will change minds and hearts

She is obviously an excellent communicator, so if she is genuinely trying to educate and inform, she needs to understand her audience and speak to them.

Contrapoints does know their audience and is speaking to them. Contrapoints audience isn't women concerned about the safety and dignity of women and girls.

I don't know her, no. In fact I've never seen her videos before this one.

Some of the comments here just seem unnecessarily focused on her personal appearance and presentation rather than what she's saying. If you have a problem with men presenting in a feminine manner then start a thread about that but there's no need to make it personal.

If someone posted that video to "convince" me, I'd have to defriend them, unless we were very close.

It's gimmicky, puerile and annoying. As pp said, try watching the one where Contrapoints, imitating a GC feminist, gets into a bath of blood and rubs it all over themselves.

Tee hee.

Are you a personal friend of Contrapoints, StarspangledAnna?

Seems a tad much!

it doesn’t matter a hoot - we can’t criticise people for not getting the dress-code right when we’re agreed that women are not defined by their clothes.

I didn't mind the clothes one bit. It's the unnatural voice and stupid playacting that irritated me. I was willing to listen but was turned off within five minutes.

I just find it frustrating that she has useful and interesting things to say but they are difficult to concentrate on. She is obviously an excellent communicator, so if she is genuinely trying to educate and inform, she needs to understand her audience and speak to them.

Oh dear, don't go on any threads about celebrities.

You're entitled to think what you like about Natalie Lamaha but then why comment on the thread if you've got nothing to add other than personal attacks? You don't get to dictate how other people dress and speak just because you find it grating.

Honestly, just my subjective opinion of course, you come across as ageist, transphobic and homophobic.

Exactly Zut and it is non stop snark all the time. The look is copying Lady Gaga carrying a cup and saucer from ten years ago.
m.zimbio.com/Lady+Gaga/articles/216/Lady+Gaga+Obsessed+Teacup

I found the presentation very annoying too. I wish she had just talked to the camera without all the distractions. What she had to say was interesting- but I found it hard to take in.

I watched a previous contrapoints video once, where contrapoints had a 'debate' with a straw man gender critical feminist - also played by contrapoints. The video ended with a menstruation fetish scene, with contrapoints sitting in a bath of red liquid.

YY. People who think this person is "thoughtful" should maybe watch that one.

@StarSpangledAnna: it is my subjective opinion. I said above that it felt like chalk on a backboard and I mean that literally. I could not listen to it and the presenter did feel like a clown and not worthy of listening to.

I am quite happy to listen to people who speak normally without exaggerated role-playing. That is my personal preference, and is my right. It didn't seem like fun to me, just extremely irritating.

You are welcome to find it fun or funny; we all react differently. I'm not a mean person but I dislike these kind of performances. Maybe it's an age thing; maybe the video is aimed at young people who need their presenters to be costumed and playing a role. I'm quite happy with people speaking in their normal voice and wearing ordinary clothes and presenting their arguments, even if I disagree, articulately and evenly. No need for theatrics.

Presenters know to slant their presentation to the designated audience. I (and others like me) am obviously not the right audience for this.

Contra Points likes to pretend that they are the reasonable middle ground, but they are anything but.

Contra Points does not like women who disagree with, or stand in the way of what Contra Points wants.

Greer could’ve done better.

And I do think we draw far too much attention to what trans women are wearing given that we’ve concluded
it doesn’t matter a hoot - we can’t criticise people for not getting the dress-code right when we’re agreed that women are not defined by their clothes.

Above all though, women are defined by their biology. And that’s that.

“sh I've just read this thread properly. People say mumsnet is transphobic and I've never really seen it here on FWR but it's really coming out on this thread (homophobia as well). How depressing.”

Report all posts that concern you.

Gosh I've just read this thread properly. People say mumsnet is transphobic and I've never really seen it here on FWR but it's really coming out on this thread (homophobia as well). How depressing.

Lamaha I think saying she speaks like a clown and therefore her arguments are not worthy of listening to isn't fair.

Her viewpoint and experiences are interesting to hear and the medium of presentation just as valid as any. She's just a person expressing herself in a fun manner, attack the arguments sure but attacking the way she speaks and looks seems unnecessary and mean and detracts from the GC argument.

The article is interesting, the video as well IMHO. The insulting comments about the presenter in this thread are less helpful and seem unnecessary and cruel.

Thanks for sharing Raisinbrain, that's a great article.

@Raisinbrain, that's an excellent article and just shows that it's the presentation of the video rather than the actual content (arguments) that turn people off. I am always willing to listen to good arguments and argue back but not with someone who talks like a clown, and the fact that this person is so oblivious of her effect speaks volumes.

There's another good response article here
medium.com/@aytchellis/response-to-contrapoints-263a2796bb9b

I found the video quite interesting and will probably watch more of the channel later.

I thought it addressed quite well some of the aspects of being trans that I've found difficult to understand like the hyper feminine appearance of some TW. Like Natalie says, because she really, really doesn't want to be misgendered she goes to huge efforts to try and avoid it. I can understand why someone would do that and can accept that TW don't necessarily think that being a woman is just about clothes and make up.

I think she's very honest and genuine with her history and experience which is good and interesting to hear.

It's a shame that the video doesn't really address what I see as the key concerns that GC women have and instead has a parody character spouting one line soundbites. As said at the beginning of the video, this is a nuanced and difficult conversation and neither sides points can be reduced down to a one liner. I'd have liked to see discussion of the male vs female criminal patterns and consideration of the potential for abuse that arises from a self-ID system. It seems disengenous to acknowledge that women have concerns arising from their own past abuse but then seemingly put these women and their concerns aside in favour of more easily addressed points.

As with most videos and discussions I've heard from the perspective of TW the discussion is very much centred around the individuals experience rather than considering societal experience (as I think is more commonly the viewpoint that GC women approach this issue from).

Also, why were they dressed like a 1940s [female] film star?

What an odd comment. Why shouldn't they dress like a 1940s film star? I found the video quite amusing to begin with, even if I didn't agree , although got bored about the same stage as you but the dress , hat etc was lovely.