Another day, another friend insisting that THIS video will change minds and hearts

So is your view that all transwomen are drag queens?

I think that depends on the recipient BertrandRussell. Not sure WeRiseUp is really the intended audience.

But anyway, I think that this discussion proves the point that her message is lost by the presentation.

I think the intention behind drag and the intention behind the hyper feminisation of trans women is very different.

Please expand.

Good God.

Lots of drag queens 'pass'.

But I think the intention behind drag and the intention behind the hyper feminisation of trans women is very different.

I wouldn’t say she was in drag- I thought she’d pass.

This person is not a drag queen

How is this person not a drag queen?

But this video was clearly drag. So how did you extract the 'trans' from it, to see it separately Bertrand?

This person is not a drag queen, so what's your point?

I abhor drag-but I do try very hard to separate it in my mind from transwomen. One thing this video did was to help me understand the hyper femininization thing- that made a lot of sense.

I agree with you just and lamaha.

Drag is light-hearted entertainment with strands of misogyny, anguish, defensiveness and rebellious challenge running through it. It is an art form by and for gay men (even though it spills over to wider audiences here and there). It is about the struggles, jokes and aesthetics shared by many gay men, but it says nothing about women or women's rights.

If a drag artist sets themselves as either:

1. Actually being a woman or
2. A spokesperson for women's issues and concerns

They are both a CF and an adversary of women.

For me this whole presentation issue, when it comes to trans women, is aggravating because it is so clearly related to drag; to gay male sub-culture; and also for the reason that for some men presenting in women's clothing is a fetish; a fetish that taken over their entire life.

As the poster says, it is the sheer narcissism of it.

The other day I watched a video by a transman. I'm quite happy to call him "he" here because he passed outwardly, and spoke calmly and reasonable about his life and how he felt. I listened to him and though I don't agree that he is really a man, because of the way he presented himself, with self-respect and respect for his viewers, I listened to him thoughtfully, and out of politeness use male pronouns here, and would do so in his company.

That's the way to do it, if you want to get GC people on side. If you really want to get their backs up and push them away, then do what this person in the video did. If you have a reasonable and intelligent position and argument, then there's no need for gimmicks and theatricals. It just appears narcissistic and I never listen to narcissists.

I can't bring myself to use 'she' either; instead I use 'they'.

Just commenting "yuk" about the video doesn't really get the point across though, except to the already converted (not saying that you said this, but another poster did).

You must have heard of the phrase " The medium is the message"......and if you really want to convey an idea to an audience, it is probably best not to antagonise them right from the start.

The fact is 'Presentation' is the WHOLE ISSUE with trans-genderism/sexualism. The presentation is the site of conflict, and of debate. It is all about presentations of the self.

And for this video presenter to exaggerate femininity is in such a way just heightens the disconnect between reality and presentation. It doesn't disguise or make the presentation any more palatable, or any more believable.

Yeah see that's totally reasonable and I agree with you. Just commenting "yuk" about the video doesn't really get the point across though, except to the already converted (not saying that you said this, but another poster did).

What I have issue with is using that to refuse to listen to another person's point of view. In my eyes its exactly the same as trans rights activists refusing to engage with GC feminists because of their GC beliefs, i.e. No debate.

But we have all heard the arguments in full many times before - we just don't agree with the conclusions. I think most GC women are perfectly able and willing to answer each question in full, with explanation and examples; whereas most TRAS refuse point blank to engage - because they think any debate 'invalidates their existence'. And on the occasion when they do engage, the paucity and irrationality of their arguments shows them up.

YY. It's gaslighting on a grand scale.

It's about the external validation though. She wants people to call her she and validate her perceived inner gender identity so arising from that she puts on exaggerated femininity.

And that is what makes it all so oppressive and totalitarian. that people have to be forced through threat of arrest, or loss of livelihood, to validate your feelings about yourself. Even in the the face of reality, and biological fact.

Trans-women, sorry.......not trans men - ( but they do too)

If I had the budget and the face for video I'd love to make a video but the other way around with my inner transwoman as the "baddy".

Couldn't the 'inner transwoman' just be an alter ego - an aspect of the personality that you like to express now & then. 'She' wouldn't have to be a baddy. We are all multi-faceted - and that includes women. Trans men spend so much time trying to assume a role, and have to be careful not to 'drop out' of it accidentally - which is why it all comes across as so false and studied. The real self eventually peeps out.