Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Ama - transwoman

522 replies

Indigo9 · 18/04/2019 01:53

I've heard about Mumsnet for years in regards to views on transgender women. But until today I had never visited the site. I've spent hours reading posts related to transwomen and the gender ID bill. I do think there is a little bit of a disconnect with regards to who and what we are. So I've decided to setup this profile with a mind to answering questions you may have about being transgender. I'm not in to hate or insults, so you won't see me participate in any mud slinging, name calling or anything else. I will, however, answer any legitimate questions from my own perspective. I do not speak for the whole trans community and would not try to, but will happily share what I know.

OP posts:
pottyteethfacehands · 18/04/2019 08:08

The bathroom issue is interesting...

If you, whilst in transition visited the men's bathroom you say you would be beaten.

What about a male transgender in the late stages of transition visiting the men's bathroom - surely the same logic says they would be beaten too?

KatvonHostileExtremist · 18/04/2019 08:06

I repeat the request of another user above. Could you post the screenshot?

I heard that Mumsnet was full of hateful comments towards transwomen in particular. What made me come here today was a screenshot on FB that contained some pretty vulgar language towards transwomen.

Mumsnet mods work hard and fast to remove anything that breaks our rules. You will not find that comment on this forum. However if you look at:
Kiwi Farms
Facebook
Twitter
In fact any other source of social media, you'll find 100 times worse. Will you be going there later?

I find your logic interesting, as you've stated "kindness" is the key to womanly magical essence. Obviously we are NOT KIND, therefore why do you want to engage with a group of us men?

Jocasta2018 · 18/04/2019 08:05

Did the OP go through puberty as a boy or was she on puberty blockers then females hormones. If puberty was as a boy then she might now resemble a woman after surgery, etc but her body has all the benefits of being male no matter how much oestrogen she is taking now. You can't change your chromosomes.

My first female thoughts today were:
Must put on my glasses - can't see without them!
Wow, that Night Nurse really knocks you out - hope I wasn't snoring too loudly
Need a pee
Have I got any eggs for breakfast
Must buy Mum a birthday cake

Please bear in mind that I am 47 & almost at the end of the menopause. So I take my daily HRT, every 3 days I use an oestrogen pessary & the other days I use lubricating pessaries to ease my vaginal atrophy. So I'm going through a lot of womanly things at the mo. But my first thought was about glasses...

Beerincomechampagnetastes · 18/04/2019 08:03

What’s with all this hysteria?

Op answered the question clearly....your lady brains just didn’t listen properly.

Being a women is wearing comfortable clothes when you get home

It’s about the level of contribution I’ve come to expect. Grin

JessicaWakefieldSV · 18/04/2019 08:03

🙉🙈🙊 🍌

MIdgebabe · 18/04/2019 08:02

beaspin, OP think you are both kind of missing the point.

an awful lot of women, finger in the air 30%, have struggled all their life with not fitting the binary mode. That bit we understand. Totally.

This is partly what feminism has been about..allowing us be scientists , to take out a mortgage, Wear tourers, vote, leave the children with their dad , things that our lady brains were( and by some, still) considered incapable of. We see ourselves as human. We cannot detect any way in which we are different to men beyond the bloody obvious physical crap.

However despite this we see a strong need for some things like privacy or sport to have sex based aspects, because of that physical crap

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 18/04/2019 08:02

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

LordWheresMyShoes · 18/04/2019 08:01

How come it's only ever transwomen who can say they know how it feels to think like a woman? I don't know any women who say they think like a woman. Only transwomen.

jellyfrizz · 18/04/2019 07:59

It is only very recently have we been able to be out, be proud of who and what we are and simply get on with living our best lives.

I don’t get how hiding ones past and previous name is being out and proud.

Being out and proud of being trans is accepting the whole journey, not just the final destination.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 18/04/2019 07:58

I'm wearing my comfy denim skirt. although my current (very slow) quest to reduce my BMI has rendered my skinny jeans comfortable again, so they're back on wardrobe rotation - hurrah!

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 18/04/2019 07:56

I’m wearing my comfy pants today.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 18/04/2019 07:55

OP sorry but you have been sold a lie

and yes, isn't it so apparent that being raised in a very sexist environment and transgenderism seem to go hand in hand?

just another example of how harmful sexism is for everyone. This person has formed some beliefs about women's minds and personalities being intrinsically different to mens, decided that their personality matches that of women better than that of men, and on that basis had radical surgery and drug treatment which will in all likelihood have rendered them sterile, and a lifelong medical patient.

MrsScamander · 18/04/2019 07:55

@BernardBlacksWineIceLolly I don't understand the whole "change into comfy pants" thing either, I spend my life in leggings or jeggings that are comfortable all day. No changing until bedtime for me!

DP on the other hand will change into his disgusting grey jogging bottoms as soon as he gets home from work. I guess we can assume that whether you wear comfy pants or not has absolutely nothing to do with your sex or gender Grin

sackrifice · 18/04/2019 07:53

By the way, men being given female hormones when I had to wait 7 years to get HRT and now have osteoporosis boils my piss.

How fucking dare they?

sackrifice · 18/04/2019 07:51

OP sorry but you have been sold a lie.

Being a woman = thinking like one, is a false equivalency. It doesn't exist.

If you felt different, it's because society values a set of behaviours in men and women differently.

If you align towards the 'wrong' behaviours, it doesn't make you the opposite sex 'born in the wrong body', it makes you the sex you were born as, because nothing can change this. Nothing.

So you were an effeminate boy, and your parents tried to beat it out of you. This means were abused as a child. Not that you were born in the wrong body. The answer then was to change you, not to change the mindsets of the people around you. Which sadly, seems to be the answer to everything these days.

If as a boy child, doctors had given you testosterone to make you more 'male' there would have been an outcry. But giving you female hormones to make you less male, not a concern at all. Doesn't this make you angry? Why are people not accepting of feminine males?

Why do you think so many female hormones are readily available to men before they are even adults, when women are still denied these same hormones when they hit the menopause, when these hormones might stop them getting osteoporosis and other crippling problems associated with living longer after the menopause?

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 18/04/2019 07:51

and the only concrete example of thinking like a woman provided by the OP was

I, and other woman are more kind generally. Less likely to control others

given that the OP came here, apparently to re-educate us, is not bothered by any distress they may cause to women when accessing single sex spaces, and appears to believe that 'because I said so' is a good reason for women to accept them into single sex spaces, I'm not convinced about either being kind or not being controlling.

ShiveringCoyote · 18/04/2019 07:49

Well LangCleg I'm a bit annoyed at grey rocks right now. I ordered some grey stone for my garden and there is most definitely a green hue to it.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 18/04/2019 07:48

The only concrete example of female behaviour given by the OP was changing into comfy pants after work.

why is the OP wearing clothes that aren't comfortable to work? why not wear their comfy pants to work?

is it possible that part of how the OP defines 'woman' is 'wears uncomfortable, stereotypically feminine clothes'? - i.e. sexist stereotypes?

pachyderm · 18/04/2019 07:47

Do you think my young male relative should be allowed to use the Ladies? He is a slight, feminine, flamboyant gay man whose appearance and mannerisms frequently draw negative attention and threats from other men. He is actually more "feminine" presenting than many male people I have seen demanding to use women's spaces, yet would never dream of making such a demand himself. Why is this?

FuzzyLilac · 18/04/2019 07:47

I have no idea what thinking like a woman is Confused
Does that mean I am not a woman?

I do have to have my coil fitted next week so I have thought about that today. Is that a woman thought?
I also wanted to punch the man that cat called me yesterday so would that be more of a man thought?

End of the day it is not thoughts or feelings that make you a man or a woman. It is not a lifestyle. It is biology.
When people try to describe man and woman using thoughts and feelings it makes the word useless and they tie themselves in knots trying to avoid the true answer. It shows the ridiculousness of their argument.

LangCleg · 18/04/2019 07:46

What's your opinion on grey rocks?

Ama - transwoman
ShiveringCoyote · 18/04/2019 07:45

I agree Lord.

FamilyOfAliens · 18/04/2019 07:43

Whereas it seems like the transgender perception of lady thoughts is about clothing and appearance but is ultimately and very clearly about making oneself happy above everyone else, which is at odds with what a lot of women are doing and thinking day in day out.

This!

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 18/04/2019 07:41

There won’t be an answer. A more cynical person may think this thread is screen grab bait.

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 18/04/2019 07:40

I know you engage with this forum in good faith Bespin, but I think you, and Indigo9 are missing the point, when women here ask for a definition of woman which is subject to practical proof for the sake of policy and legislation.

Women have fought for, specific rights and suffered from, specific oppressions, on the basis of their biological reality. That’s not about feeling like a woman, that’s about the material reality of the female body.

If men are making the claim that they are really women, in order to enter female spaces and take up female spaces, (in rape crisis centres, in women’s sports, on short lists and prizes and hospital wards, for example), then it seems reasonable, indeed overwhelmingly sensible, to be able to identify and measure the quality which makes a man a female person in law.

If women are to experience the incursion their f men, who believe they are women, into their spaces, most often to the detriment of women, then their needs to be evidence, other than an immaterial and immeasurable, innate sense of womanhood.

While I am willing to concede that there are men, for whatever reason of mental health or biological quirk, who truly believe they are, in a spirit although not embodiment, female, there is currently no way to differentiate those men, from the perverts, the dangerous or the just plain weird, who are willing to use this legal framework to force women out of their hard-won spaces; physical, professional, economic or health.

So the question about defining a woman is entirely pertinent and has never been satisfactorily answered.

Women don’t care if men want to wear the accoutrement of conventional feminine stereotypes, we really don’t.

Women care about those legal and moral protections which have been enacted because of those social oppressions which are universally experienced by those inhabiting a body which is biologically female.

We care about 16 year old girls who can no longer be competitive in the sports they have trained long and hard for; or the violated women who can no longer trust in a male-free space in a shelter; or a Muslim woman who can no longer swim in the women-only pool session; or the old woman who can no longer ensure that her intimate personal care is done by another woman.

So until you can answer this central question in a rational way which is testable and replicable, we’re going to keep asking. Women should not have to give way to men, yet again, on the amorphous basis of a feeling.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.

Swipe left for the next trending thread