All-males college excludes TW. And they don't like it up 'em!

Have cake and eat cake. Anything else is "violence".
Omg

I disagree as it will set precedent for female-only schools to follow suit.

Female only schools have already capitulated, a fair few of them anyway.

As I understand it, the women's colleges at Cambridge accept TW. And I assume TM too (as that would make logical sense)... does anyone know for sure? I don't see how they can justify remaining women only without drawing a line somewhere. Otherwise they already have "male-presenting' students and actually male students.

They accept TW with a GRC (I believe they legally have to) and one or two of the three recently extended that to also allow for 'transitioning' students to apply. The change seemed intended to allow for people who would be intending to go down the GRC path but who because of their age (18) could not possibly have one yet.

I'm not sure they've had any actually apply, let alone be accepted. Cambridge colleges don't have to justify their offers, and can 'pool' any applicant they think would be up to the course but don't want themselves.

Re TM - I cant imagine why any would apply to a female college, and again, if any did so the college wouldn't have to accept them. Existing students who want to transition are supported in their choice if they want to move to a mixed college.

The college I know about has all single en-suite rooms in the first year, and very few shared rooms thereafter which are only ever allocated to people who want to share.

It also isn't a purely female enclave, 'single sex' only ever applied to undergrad admissions.

So while it's ideologically poor, in practice it's nothing for a female student or her parent to get alarmed about.

My understanding is that it is usual for freshmen students to share rooms, allocations made by the college.

I assume many parents would be unhappy to hear that their 18 year old daughter was about to share with a transwoman, especially one who was not far down the transition path.

But at least their track team should improve.

As I understand it, the women's colleges at Cambridge accept TW. And I assume TM too (as that would make logical sense)... does anyone know for sure? I don't see how they can justify remaining women only without drawing a line somewhere. Otherwise they already have "male-presenting' students and actually male students.

although I don't know what Spelman's policies are.

www.ajc.com/news/local-education/spelman-college-admit-transgender-female-students/EP8SDz3abISvDSao97v1gJ/

Did anyone hear demands by transmen to be admitted to Spelman?

I wonder if the college could see the writing on the wall and have simply decided that that TW are likely to become even more demanding in the years to come and have nipped it in the bud, knowing that TM (if they even bother to apply) are likely to prove less troublesome.

McKinnon's recent antics won't have helped the TW cause.

Girl Guiding.

Morehouse has a sister college called Spelman which is all-women, those students who transition from male to female should apply for a transfer - and vice-versa frankly although I don't know what Spelman's policies are.

These colleges have a strong tradition of providing single sex higher education to those who choose it, ridiculous to then force them to make exceptions.

@Oliversmumsarmy

Right on, I think many people would have your reaction.

I disagree as it will set precedent for female-only schools to follow suit. This is unnecessary territory to muddle - Morehouse is one of only three non-religious male-only colleges left in the US. More students that attend undergrad programs in sex-segregated schools move on to higher degree programs.

College applicants are applying more to female-only and male-only colleges than in previous recent years and are picking schools based on degree programs and for single-sex experiences as opposed to in spite of them. It used to be about going to the cool schools or party schools now students are focusing more on academics (probably because of increase in tuition costs and the crippling debt they expect to incur).

Taking the choice and opportunity of single-sex learning away from paying students showing interest through high enrollment numbers is poor judgement.

The students that benefit the most from sex-segregated schools are girls/women if boys/men are left without their single-sex institutions the girls schools will disappear too. Honestly this feels like a TRA goal to blur the lines so much that there is literally no female-only or male-only spaces left or allowed.

I think the college aren’t saying that you can change sex they are responding to those that believe Trans women are women and have said ok, in which case if you are now women then you can’t come to an all men college.

From my understanding they are happy to accept trans men because obviously by the belief that trans women are women then obviously trans men are men and more than welcome.

You can’t have it all ways.

I think the college have dealt with this perfectly.

😀😃😄😁😆😅😂🤣

There are not enough laughing emojis for me to express how hard I laughed at this! Be careful what you wish for ‘folks’.

Total hypothetical but...

I would be monumentally pissed if I attended a female-only institution and found a male or TW in my classes/dorms/sports/organizations because female-only would be part of what I would be paying for.

In fact I would demand a refund via litigation if necessary for tuition, expenses, time spent, and relocation to another school citing FTC Regulations regarding truth in advertising. Based on truth in advertising case law in relation to higher education, I would expect to win fairly easily though judgement and reward would occur in the rearview of completed education - but that win would set precedent for those behind me (which would be the goal).

Hopefully someone will have the guts (or balls in this Morehouse situation) to bring the aforementioned argument.

I'm actually quite saddened at the college tbh. Single sex should mean exactly that, not telling either sex they are suddenly not that sex if they ''suddenly identify' as another. No-one has a clear objective definition of 'identify as' or 'live as' a particular sex.

The TRA response is as priceless as its laughable though.

Private all-girls/women or all-boys/men schools are exempt from Title IX sex protection as well as sex interpretation or gender identity (TW and TM) and as a result are legally able to restrict their admissions accordingly.

I'm willing to bet that the majority of proud boys/men that attend Morehouse College don't want their classes, dorms, etc. overrun with TW or TM. They have many choices in regards to HBCU (historically black colleges and universities) as well as universities that aren't HBCU that are co-ed to choose from. I expect that if they wanted to attend a co-ed school they would have done so instead of choosing a male-only HBCU.

The TRAs need to leave these guys to their education instead of creating distractions that these guys are likely attempting to avoid by attending a male-only HBCU. Morehouse College's mission is "develop men with disciplined minds who will lead lives of leadership and service", categorically exclusive to men. Considering their exemptions I don't understand why they are bending the rules to include TM (I believe it is a huge mistake, there is no reason to blur the lines and no law instructs them to do so).

Basically whatever the special snowflakes want is what the special snowflakes should get. No rules. even the ones they make up themselves, should apply.

That's it. They do this deliberately to keep everyone walking on eggshells. Because it's about power.

Aren't male-only spaces supposed to be so dangerous for TW that they must have entrance to female ones? Why is this college different? I bet they don't have many female toilets at Moorhouse College. What about dorms?, they're going to be male-only too. Their identity is going to be under attack every day.

If the college had said "TW are welcome here because we know they're really men" there would have been an uproar too. They can't win. Basically whatever the special snowflakes want is what the special snowflakes should get. No rules. even the ones they make up themselves, should apply.

That is hilarious. I hope the “femmes”
Spreads as an alternative to ACTUAL WOMAN.

My ultimate point is there is a great deal of nuance in US education class protections and varies greatly from state-to-state, however, a plethora of exemptions and applications thereof protect private educational institutions (even when they don't invoke said exemptions until pushed by litigation).

@Needmoresleep and @nauticant

Too many state laws protecting gender identity, with the cultural acceptance that goes with it. Bad here. Worse over there.

It depends on how you look at it I think.

Cultural acceptance is grand or non-existent depending on where you look. The US is an individualist society/culture like the UK but US is beginning to lean more collectivist. Because the US is a country born of immigrants and is very young there really isn't a bonafide US culture able to be observed consistently from state-to-state or even city-to-city.

Just like everywhere else in the world the loudest voices are heard and many that disagree tend to be meek or less vocal - e.g. my father and stepmother attend a Non-denominational Christian Church which denounces the T but embraces all races/nationalities and LGB, they are kind and meek but fear that the T explosion is a sign of "the end of days"... they do not vilify the individuals but the ideology as it conveys that the creator made mistakes (an impossibility in their eyes, hearts, and minds). While I see the world differently some of my perspective on gender dysphoria is congruent with theirs (the facts, not the ethereal). Many that disagree are silent while the minority believing TWAW and TMAM is loudly in public and quietly in law pushing their agendas.

While in no way shape or form am I a fan of Trump and his antics, but I really appreciate that his administrationrescinded Obama's guidance (not law but guidance in interpretation) on gender identity being protected under 'sex' (Title IX only bars discrimination based on a student’s biological sex under Trump admin interpretation and guidance for enforcement). I don't like Trump but I have to give credit when and where it is due.

20 US states and DC have education anti-discrimination laws explicitly protecting LGBT students; 30 states as well as Puerto Rico and Guam do not have any state protections in place. Some states specifically protect LGB and not T.

Just because those laws are on record doesn't mean that courts will uphold them if challenged.

Federal law provides no protection in education beyond protected classes i.e. Race, Color, Religion or creed, National origin or ancestry, Sex, Age, Physical or mental disability, Veteran status, Pregnancy, Genetic information, and Citizenship.

Public schools are subject to federal anti-discrimination laws as they receive federal funds, but aren't really enforced unless challenged (rare). State laws guide these institutions on how to further uphold protected classes but typically are not enforced until challenged (rarer still).

Religious private education institutions are not subject to anti-discrimination laws in education or employment as long as they don't receive federal funds and are not subject to state anti-discrimination laws as long as they don't participate in state funded voucher programs. They are able to refuse education and employment to anyone (including disabled individuals). If they accept federal funds, they are subject to Title VI of the Civil Rights Act (prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color or national origin - NOTE sex is not protected). In regards to Title IX, these organizations are exempt “to the extent that application of Title IX would be inconsistent with the religious tenets of the organization”. The majority of private schools in the U.S. are religious, so they have a great deal of wiggle room in regards to all protected classes.

Private (not religious) education institutions are subject to Title IX protections but due to Trump's interpretation guidance as mentioned above sex-based discrimination is only prohibited based on one's biological sex. All-girls/women or all-boys/men schools are exempt from Title IX sex protection and as a result are legally able to restrict their admissions accordingly.

In regards to changing your sex on your birth certificate, most US states have it codified into law - I firmly disagree with this as you are born a sex and should not be able to change your birth records to reflect how you feel even if you had full reassignment surgery. There are other ways to handle fully reassigned individuals without destroying the validity of birth certificates and confusing governmental authorities. The US sends SSA checks to dead people, truly disabled people have problems gaining disability benefits while some abusers are able to gain access, voter fraud is rampant in certain states, and somehow the state and federal governments think they can keep gender identity straight with altered birth certificates in play (yeah right).

Fortunately the US does not have a federal self-ID policy in place and while it appears it's being pushed it does not appear to have gained any traction in legislation (but then again most of this legislation is being codified under the veil of night so I could be wrong).

TLDR; US private sex-segregated schools are legal and exempt from sex anti-discrimination laws (even when receiving federal funds). Morehouse College (under law) has every right to reject students admission whether TW (based on gender identity) or TM (based on sex).

Oops. Sounds like someone went to put the milk bottles out on the front step in their bath robe, and the wind blew the door shut behind them.

the policy is discriminatory against trans women students

But, but. but

Trans women are women #nodebate

And this is a Men's College. So TWs not eligible.

Oh I do so want to feel sorry for them ...

Planet, what Nauticant saud

From what I've read, I don't think Morehouse College even had a chance to refuse to accept gender identity as the basis for admission.

Too many state laws protecting gender identity, with the cultural acceptance that goes with it. Bad here. Worse over there.

@Needmoresleep

Socially/culturally in the US simple sex segregation would probably be near impossible.

Why do you think this? This is not a gotcha or otherwise; I wonder if I'm missing something?

I'm currently reading The Coddling of the American Mind (thanks for whoever on MN recommended it, it's a fascinating read). It's largely about identity politics in American universities but much is relevant to trans issues and particularly to this thread. From what I've read, I don't think Morehouse College even had a chance to refuse to accept gender identity as the basis for admission.

One thing in the book that really caught my eye was this diagram:

i.redd.it/azxipgqozyo11.png

In order to score the most oppression points, one needs to be at the lower end of as many of the axes as possible. For example:
Infertile - transwomen can't give birth so a tick here
Poor - if we are to believe the Patreon begging they're all in desperate need
Female - of course
Non-white - a tick in this case
Gay/Lesbian - since words mean nothing, anything can be assumed as an identity
Transgender - of course
Disabled - seems par for the course