“Symptoms of gender dysphoria” a mermaids tweet.

OldCrone
How can a sexually immature child, who is too young to legally engage in sexual activity, consent to a course of action which will mean that they never experience normal sexual function?

Having finally watched the Louis Theroux documentary the other week, this aspect makes me so sad. To have a massive and wonderful part of adulthood just blocked off before you’ve even tried it? To never be able to have a normal, spontaneous sex life (I followed a link on here once to info about how erections can be created by the push of a button, etc). Of course I don’t want to think about it, but why would I want my kids to miss out on that when they are adults? I’m worried enough about how they will navigate relationships as they try and live independently with autism.

FFS the 5 year olds aren’t going to really understand what sex is if they know of it at all, an 11yo is still in the “euwwww sex is gross and something I don’t wanna think about” phase especially if they’ve not had any puberty hormones flooding in yet. How on Earth can they make this choice?

And then the blockers just make it even less likely they’ll even consider it as something they might want to take part in when older, they still won’t be thinking about it when their peers are. I found myself wondering recently if part of the reason some parents jump for joy at puberty blockers is that subconsciously, they get their babies to be dependant and young for a lot longer...

AlwaysComingHome
I wouldn’t be very surprised if gender dysphoria is a response to feelings of alienation from others and to sensory issues associated with ASD; in other words GD might be an indicator your child is on the autistic spectrum rather than the other way round.

Yes that’s how I view it. If a supposedly neurotypical child is starting to talk about wanting to change sex, the first thing a doctor should do is refer to autism assessment. Rather than a clinic who will shove drugs at them. Let’s actually try and find out why they are feeling like they don’t fit in... just a thought, eh?

(In a similar way, if only the link had been known between eating disorders and ASD years ago, so many more young people presenting with an ED could have been referred and diagnosed earlier while treating the ED at the same time. Although at least treatment for ED didn’t involve validating the child saying they weren’t thin enough and offering medication and surgery to help them achieve that...)

Although, I am horrified to see how many already-diagnosed-autistic kids are being sent down the fucking irreversible medical pathway anyway. It’s a KNOWN THING, and puberty can be incredibly traumatic for those on the spectrum anyway so OF COURSE kids will want to avoid that... how can parents AND DOCTORS not stop and think, oh hang on, autism, let’s watch and wait. But instead it’s been latched onto in the wrong way by the wrong people and is being used almost as a reason to affirm even faster! Ohhhh you’re autistic too? Well no wonder you’re trans, here’s some pills to help you fit in, yay!!!

Chameleon behaviour is so so common in girls with autism, when you’re struggling with a changing body, potentially new huge secondary school and wondering why you aren’t like all the other girls, if someone offers you an accepting group, of course you’re going to latch on to it.

(My daughter is just like that, she becomes her friends. Every thread I read like this, I’m more and more relieved she stayed home ed instead of starting year 7 (plenty of woke HE families around of course but easily avoided and explained as being “some people believe XYZ but...”). Her latest thing is deciding she wants to be slytherin after being sorted happily into hufflepuff last year... she’s bought herself stuff to this effect and now self identifies as a slytherpuff ... just lucky that this does not involve altering her anatomy and fertility, I suppose .)

Thingybob I suspect they're looking for "proof" young children can consent so that they can push for Gillic competency If that came to pass it would open doors as to what else children can consent to

There are a number of pages re trans things on the Nas website including a video I watched a couple of moths ago. .

I can't remember much but I think it would be worth watching to evaluate how to communicate to the NAS.

I wish I had more time to be properly pro active on this, sorry.

At this stage asking that question might be really useful data for the NAS. If they choose to challenge the appropriation by the trans cult. (Are we allowed to say trans cult?)

How can a sexually immature child, who is too young to legally engage in sexual activity, consent to a course of action which will mean that they never experience normal sexual function?

I wonder if there are any other groups out there who might be keen for sexually immature children to be deemed able to consent to to a course of action around sexuality.... 🤔

I think NAS have drunk the koolaid. Their latest survey ends by asking what gender you identify as...

So decreased gender dysphoria = gender dysphoria?

I guess if it’s any consolation that means you can have your birthday cake and eat it too, FuriousOctopus.

Well that's one way to ruin a birthday. I've just found out I have gender dysphoria.

At least everyone else does too.

Johanna and Aydin Olson-Kennedy are on the payroll of a pharmaceutical company which makes testosterone and puberty blockers.

twitter.com/ZaneEmma/status/1115744747589525506

www.endo.com/endopharma/our-products

Blimey. That list. Surely it's a list of reasons to slam on the brakes and at the very least do no more than watch and wait?

Placemarking. Appalled.

I suspect they're looking for "proof" young children can consent so that they can push for Gillic competency.

How can a sexually immature child, who is too young to legally engage in sexual activity, consent to a course of action which will mean that they never experience normal sexual function?

nicenewdusters the importance of ignored/denied consequences of complex trauma /abuse is very important.
(& thank you)

I suspect they're looking for "proof" young children can consent so that they can push for Gillic competency.

YY
This has been being raised by many promonant TRAs for a while.

ROwantrees no apology needed, I didn't phrase my earlier post very well. I meant I hadn't seen your post before I posted mine, hence not commenting in that about trauma. I always find your posts very helpful and informative.

Thingybob I suspect they're looking for "proof" young children can consent so that they can push for Gillic competency.

Proof we all fall under the "trans umbrella" as Gender Free.

We constantly question gender and we question their utter bollocks. Poor poor kids.

ByGrab, perhaps they are seeking evidence against the use of PB. It will justify starting cross sex hormones and performing SRS earlier.

The example I will explore is one borne of material reality: the criminal prosecution of young trans and other gender non-conforming youth for not disclosing their gender histories prior to intimacy (list of cases). All of these defendants were convicted, most have received custodial sentences, and all have been placed on the Sex Offenders Register.

Good grief, they're making our argument for us.

Other people and their feelings don't exist to them do they? They're just props for the validation fantasy.

Mermaids (SG?) also tweeted about another workshop they attended today, "Suicidality in Adolescents Diagnosed with Gender Dysphoria: A Cross-National, Cross-Clinic Comparative Analysis" delivered by Kenneth Zucker.

He was asked about it and tweets here:
twitter.com/ZUCKERKJ/status/1117096636528959489

The conclusions taken from abstract:

"We discuss these results in relation to both gender identity specific and more general risk models of suicidality, the need for more detailed assessment methods of suicidality, particularly with regard to the distinction between bona fide suicide attempts and self-harm (e.g., cutting without the intent to commit suicide), and possible reasons for the cross-clinic variation in degree of suicidality"

London has higher rates than the other clinics, Amsterdam and Toronto.

It may only be a correlation and not a causative factor but what have we been saying about certain groups and the irresponsible use of suicide statistics?

From pg 46 of this:

epath.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Boof-of-abstracts-EPATH2019.pdf

"Puberty blocking in transgender adolescents: How well-informed and open to change are the choices made at young age?"

Background

^In international clinical guidelines the treatment with puberty blockers (PB) is described as an extended diagnostic phase in which the pubertal adolescents are provided time to make a balanced decision regarding gender affirming medical treatments [1;2]. Even though treatment with PB is described as an extended diagnostic phase, many transgender adolescents seem to experience PB as the first ‘necessary’ medical step of a seemingly indisputable trajectory with permanent physical changes (through gender affirming hormones and/or surgeries) in the end. If treatment with PB is seen as the first step to take in gender affirming treatment, very young children (from the age of 10) make a decision with life-long consequences, which may include reduced opportunities for fertility. Most adolescents that start suppression, continue with the (partially) irreversible steps of sex hormones and surgeries.
However, concerns have been raised about the risk of regret, as gender identity could fluctuate during adolescence. Furthermore there are worries about the impact of PB on physical, cognitive and psychosocial development and the development of a consistent gender identity [4]. An important issue in this regard is whether minors at such young age are capable of making decisions about treatment with such consequences [5]. One of the eligibility criteria for adolescents for treatment with PB according to the international guidelines is that the adolescent should have sufficient mental capacity to give informed consent to this treatment [1]. Children’s competence to consent to treatment is a major issue in pediatric ethics, especially when it concerns consent for far-reaching treatments with possible side-effects. Up until now, little is known regarding child’s competence except that it often proved difficult to assess a child’s competence in clinical settings [6;7]. Nor is there empirical evidence on transgender children’s or adolescents’ competence to consent to treatment with PB. The aim of our study is to improve the decision making process in transgender adolescents regarding PB. The objectives are to: 1) examine whether treatment with PB is considered an extended diagnostic phase or the first ‘necessary’ medical step in the gender affirming trajectory by transgender adolescents themselves; and 2) examine how transgender adolescents themselves consider their competence to consent to treatment with PB.^

Methods

Semi-structured interviews will be conducted to identify considerations of transgender adolescents in the Netherlands regarding treatment with PB. About 10 to 15 adolescents who are treated with PB and gender affirming hormones will be interviewed looking back on their treatment. Data collection will continue as long as new information comes up (data saturation).

Results and Conclusions

Preliminary results of these interviews will be presented. With this study we expect insight into whether treatment with PB is considered an extended diagnostic phase or the first ‘necessary’ medical step in the gender affirming trajectory. Secondly we expect to present how adolescents think about their capacities to make decisions on PB. Based on these results, recommendations for clinical care will be given

OK so I'm glad these questions are at least being asked, but this "study" seems to be saying they're going to take 10 teenagers and ask them if they think they're mature enough to make life changing medical choices and then make clinical recommendations based on their answers. Am I the only one to spot the flaw in this plan?

Also this: concerns have been raised about the risk of regret, as gender identity could fluctuate during adolescence. Furthermore there are worries about the impact of PB on physical, cognitive and psychosocial development and the development of a consistent gender identity Maybe someone could have asked those fucking questions before making a children's TV show about how super safe and reversible and not a big deal pubity blockers are and screening it on cbeebies!

If a child who has had complex trauma/PTSD or being abused is treated instead for GD this will have enormous consequences for them.

Yep. And under affirmation-only treatment no clinician can look for the underlying cause of dysphoria. Just stick kids onto puberty blockers then send them back to the source of their trauma.

This is all such bollocks.
Children with ASD represent as children with ASD. there is no confusing that - unless you are a fuckwit - with gender dysphoria.
These creeps needs to get the fuck away from vulnerable kids. Now.