"Sex games gone wrong" that result in women's death.

BTW I made a graphic to show how frequently this is claimed as part of a death defence

Another day - news reports on two more claimed "sex game" cases.

Lorena Mazzeo killed in Spain. Salacious reporting in the mail www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6955461/Woman-strangled-death-shower-hose-sex-game-gone-wrong-Canary-Islands.html

And this man convicted of very serious injuries to his partner, and sentenced to 9 years. Decent reporting from the Liverpool Echo, and Merseyside police seem to have treated this as a serious domestic violence incident www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/abuser-jailed-after-left-ex-16176337.amp

And then they try it out, because they’ve got used to coming with that scene in front of their eyes. Do you think it unleashes something in them? A kind of savagery? Which might presumably in many cases have remained latent for a lifetime, if they hadn’t been exposed to these practices?
I see it as a way of reprogramming the unconscious mind such that domination/strangulation of the partner becomes fused with the peak of sexual pleasure and release, then comes the drive to escalate

I know of one instance where the sex games thing was toned down.

"Man murdered transgender woman after drugs binge" was the ubiquitous headline. One or two news outlets mentioned 'sex and drugs binge'.

The sexual encounter took place over three days at various locations. The suggestion that there had been 'consent' or 'a game' weren't seen as relevant to Naomi Hershi's conduct before the murder in a hotel room at Heathrow. LGBT newspapers reported the murder as a transphobic one.

The murderer got 20 years imprisonment.

It's not just when it ends in death but also violent sex generally. Look at the two different judgements from two different judges in this case. One was appalled. The other? Oh she was egging them on and obviously loving it. How can they be so diametrically opposed? I think we all know the answer is PORN.

calgarysun.com/news/crime/rough-sex-between-girl-and-three-males-was-consensual-judge-rules

In answer to Victoria's question above - we have heard from Harriet Harman.

I set up the site in response to her appearance on this on Woman's Hour - she hadn't then known of other cases beyond Natalie Connolly's.

Harriet is excellent and raging on the WH piece: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0001l78

Just adding this really strong piece by Holly Lawford-Smith www.thearticle.com/when-hundreds-of-women-are-dying-as-a-result-of-sex-its-a-sure-sign-men-are-doing-something-wrong#

(we've clarified that the "hundreds" is a bit of global healdine-y rounding by the news site, in the UK we know of 50 women).

Poor woman

And her poor family and friends that have had to see her humiliated beyond death with this nasty, salacious, victim-blaming treatment of her murder.

The increased pornification of our society is deeply concerning imo.

womandaresto Harriet Harman used to be very exercised about the crap excuses men get away with for killing women. Have you had any engagement with her?

I’ve had a partner (ironically someone I loved very much) frighten me by the pressure he put on my throat during sex.

I guess young men see this in porn, and so do middle aged men, all men basically. And then they try it out, because they’ve got used to coming with that scene in front of their eyes. Do you think it unleashes something in them? A kind of savagery? Which might presumably in many cases have remained latent for a lifetime, if they hadn’t been exposed to these practices?

In saying this I’m trying to work out why there’s been this hideous upsurge in men doing this. Why the courts are even entertaining this as a defence is a different question. Are there any groups of female barristers making a noise about this? In legal journals and articles for press etc?

The pictures are so terrible. She is so tiny and young. For her to be alone, and frightened and killed by that large powerful man, is such a horrific thought.

thank you all - yes - i think we should try a petition.

One excellent woman tried to do one but it was rejected as there was an active case in the courts. These cases are now so common it will not be possible to avoid such a time...

We'll have a think - we only get one chance at the petition wording so need to get it right.

I agree that it should not be allowed as a defence, allowing it as a defence implies that the other person does not have a duty to make sure they are not causing harm

Thank you so much for your work WomanDaresTo. Is there anything we can do to help?

I feel like there ought to be media guidelines against headlines which give credence to this abuser’s narrative which is so patently false.

Woman, thank you for what you are doing is there anything we can do? Petitions?

woman thank you and your group for doing this. Its absolutely disgusting what some men get up to and how they are able to get away with such depraved acts.

It makes me sick to my stomach. These rapists & murderers are pretty much hiding in plain sight. Most people simply don't give a fuck though, as it's just white noise in the background and we are increasingly indifferent as a society to the worsening violence against women.

Very clear there is a need for more up to date training in the police forces then.

Another finding - we've found no women who we could say died in solo asphyxiation gone wrong.

There is one woman where the police did not treat the scene as a crime scene and so it was unable to be found how she had died. Her family described her relationship with her partner as "strange and unnatural"

Similarly, Lesley Potter was found and police assumed she died in a solo-sex game (thanks to her husband's claims). They did not deem it a crime and he was convicted of murder only because he confessed to it in the pub

And Jessica Mcgraa isn't even in our list - but THE POLICE told press that she had died in a solo sex game, until to their surprise the post mortem found she had been murdered.

Thank you for those details womandaresto. Sadly I am not surprised at all by any of them. It’s just so predictable.

Yes of course women love violent sex to the point of near death that this isn’t the man fault hoe could he help himself

She was murdered as the other women were and raped as what may have started out as consensual certainly changed at some point

There had to be done more to highlight the dangers of violence in porn that is being normalised too

Hello. We set up wecantconsenttothis.uk thanks to mumsnet.

Anna Florence Reed is the 50th UK woman to die like this, with many many more women "just" injured by men who claim it happened in sex gone wrong.

We've also found a small number of gay men killed, by men, who claim this. And we've found small numbers of men who kill themselves, accidentally it seems.

The only woman we've found ran a dungeon with her husband - a man who paid them frequently for bdsm services died when he (according to them at least) locked himself in a collar.

In contrast, the woman killed have often been horribly injured. Most (27 of the 50) have been strangled. The women are:

• Young women or girls who've just met the men who kill them
• Women in relationships with men who have previous abuse history
• Women who are prostitutes, killed by the men they meet for sex

These are crimes of male violence.

The earliest case is 1972 - they are getting more frequent in recent years.

There have been a number of men that have died, but to my recollection it is usually when experimenting on their own, as another poster has pointed out.

I am what some might call "kink positive", although on the milder side than most, but there should NEVER be ANY excuse for this. It disgusts me when this "sex game gone wrong" line gets thrown out as a way to get men off a murder charge.

Noone can consent to being killed (notwithstanding euthanasia laws in some countries but that's clearly a different scenario) and I cannot believe that can even be considered as a line of defence, that someone consented to an act so extreme it could result in death.

Even if a woman (or man) consents to an extreme practice, even if the perpetrator has that consent signed in triplicate, if anyone wants to practice extreme things such as this you have a responsibility to do it safely and your partner's safety is paramount. If you cannot do that then you should face the full weight of the law, not be given a get out of gaol free card.

If I signed up to go bungee jumping, for example, and the operator was negligent and I died you can be damn sure someone would be in gaol.

To be honest I doubt the man in question is even into BDSM, it's just a convenient excuse that gets trotted out in situations like this.

This makes me so FUCKING angry. How the fuck can anyone believe she wanted that?! You clearly know if your partner has lost consciousness ffs.

It shouldn't be allowed as a defense, full stop. If I drive recklessly and crash killing my passenger, I wouldn't be admonished because I claim said passenger was encouraging me to go fast. My actions caused their death and that is the only relevant fact.