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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Julian Assange

265 replies

NeurotrashWarrior · 11/04/2019 10:45

Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder arrested in London www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47891737

OP posts:
MockerstheFeManist · 12/04/2019 08:50

Several facts that are missing from the conversation here:

1. Julian Assange was investigated by Sweden, but he was never charged. They wanted to interview him, to determine whether there was a point in charging him.

That is the Swedish inquisitorial system. They wanted to interview him but he went to inordinate lengths to prevent this.

2. The US pressured Sweden to not close the Assange investigation

This is a lie. The link provided gives no evidence for this. The second source is a piece of prejudicial shit. "Assange had consensual sex with the women...." - They say otherwise.

What is this "US Pressure" on Sweden? Sweden is a neutral country not a treaty ally of the USA.

There follows more evidence-free character assasination of President Lenin Moreno, who is 'suceptible to bribery.'

The reality is that Correra is up to his eyebrows in a Brazillian bribery scandal.

The prospective extradition charge concerns hacking. As the Canadians are having difficulty explaining to the Chinese at the moment, an extradition hearing is not a trial.

RedToothBrush · 12/04/2019 08:31

From a Labour Lord

Charlie Falconer @ lordcfalconer
Once Ecuador removed Assange’s immunity there were no choices for government. The choices were for law enforcement agencies - police and CPS. Couldn’t be basis for not proceeding with Bail offences. And US extradition is for criminal justice system to decide not government.

deepwatersolo · 12/04/2019 08:11

He shouldn't get the label of whistle blower or freedom fighter. If he had been less lazy and actually looked at the documents, releasing the bad ones and being careful about the other information (names of security staff or interpreters), then maybe.

That is not what he is indicted for, though. He is basically indicted for (apparently unsuccessfully) trying to help a source protect their identity.
And that is the precedent that will be set.

HoppingPavlova · 12/04/2019 08:10

I'd be more than happy for him to serve his sentence for bail-jumping then be deported to Australia who can keep him.

We wouldn’t be though. When a previous Prime Minister (we change them as regularly as undies here) was questioned about him they essentially said we didn’t want him back and he is an utter embarrassment. I doubt he would want to return here, we don’t tolerate utter dicks.

deepwatersolo · 12/04/2019 08:07

As usual it is one rule for our government, and another for the rest of the world.

I get your point, and I am not happy about Obama's track record regarding whistle blowers. At all. But ffs, in this case there is a very clear distinction between the Obama admin and the Trump admin, and the whole Democratic establishment (from Neera Tanden to Chuck Shumer) break for Trump? And this board too?

I can already see 10 years down the road and the UK will extradite Janice Turner for disclosing in 'The Times' that some mass murdering woman in the US is actually a male, which will then be against US law... And I will come back to this board and write in bold letters:
I TOLD YOU SO!

No really. I'm at a loss.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 12/04/2019 08:05

Where did the female staff pee then? (Sorry I’m in bed with flu and can’t get my brain around the ‘big stuff’).

LetsSplashMummy · 12/04/2019 08:02

He shouldn't get the label of whistle blower or freedom fighter. If he had been less lazy and actually looked at the documents, releasing the bad ones and being careful about the other information (names of security staff or interpreters), then maybe.

He just dumped thousands of confidential documents, without even looking at them, made the journalists do the hard work, while he went for the glory. It's totally different than Edward Snowdon, who had a particular concern and the evidence to back it up.

GoFiguire · 12/04/2019 07:57

The original bail was £93,500. So I suppose £10k here, £10k there - just the price of a nice family holiday for these people. I’d like them to give me £10k for nothing.

ARDuke · 12/04/2019 07:49

Obama is just as vile as Trump imo and doesn't care about press freedom either, as he refused to pardon Edward Snowden for blowing the whistles on the crimes the NSA were committing. Again if a Russian whistleblower exposed the FSB or the GRU committing crimes, would we accept that the whistleblower had committed a crime and should stand trial? As usual it is one rule for our government, and another for the rest of the world.

Roomba · 12/04/2019 07:44

Wasn't he living in the women's toilets at the Ecuadorian Embassy? Another man in the wrong place.

Yes! I read this yesterday (I think it was in The Guardian but not 100% sure). His original room in the embassy was too noisy due to being near the road. So he moved himself into the women's loos and they had to remove the toilet so he could fit in there! Instantly thought, 'What IS this obsession with women's toilets?' closely followed by 'Well he won't be popular on FWR then Wink'

ARDuke · 12/04/2019 07:44

And this country who gets their soldiers to gun down innocent journalists can apparently be trusted to give Assange a fair trial. And people are gullible enough to believe it. You couldn't make it up.

deepwatersolo · 12/04/2019 07:42

Yeah, ARDuke, I hear you. But people could at least acknowledge that the OBAMA administration who had all that info refused to prosecute Assange, saying it sets a dangerous precedent for press freedom. (Obama also pardoned Manning).

Instead, all those glorious '#Resisters' now side with the Trump administration. You can't make this shit up.

deepwatersolo · 12/04/2019 07:38

Just to be clear. Assange is now indicted for trying (and apparently failing) to help Manning keep their identity secret when leaking stuff like:
->this video that shows how the Reuters journos and the rescue team were killed without any actual threat to the US soldiers who decided to shoot them from the helicopter:

->the fact that the US hid the true number of civilian deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan.
ARDuke · 12/04/2019 07:33

deepwatersolo people seem to have cognitive dissonance when it comes to our government versus other governments. If Russia or China arrested a whistleblower, the media would immediately run with the angle that they were falsely arrested by the government. The possibility that they may actually be guilty of a crime and were legitimately arrested wouldn't even come into it. In this country, that happens the other way. For some reason I can't work out, people think that the Assange arrest was legitimate and that he will be given a fair trial. The possibility that he has been targeted by the government and had trumped up charges thrown at him as punishment for his whistleblowing doesn't even seem to be considered as a possibility. It's a bit of subtle racism I think, obviously it's ok when OUR government do something like this, but Russia or China or Iran isn't allowed to because their systems can't be trusted.

deepwatersolo · 12/04/2019 07:26

Several facts that are missing from the conversation here:

  1. Julian Assange was investigated by Sweden, but he was never charged. They wanted to interview him, to determine whether there was a point in charging him.
  1. The US pressured Sweden to not close the Assange investigation. www.theguardian.com/media/2018/feb/11/sweden-tried-to-drop-assange-extradition-in-2013-cps-emails-show
(Even regarding the initial opening of the investigation, initially a prosecutor dropped the rape case (not the molestation case), a superior prosecutor stepped in).

'Ny, who does not normally act for the prosecution in individual cases, overruled Finné and resumed the preliminary investigation into allegations of rape against SW on September 1.'

www.businessinsider.com/theres-something-fishy-about-the-swedish-case-against-julian-assange-2012-4?IR=T

  1. Ecuador has been pressured by the US to give up Assange for YEARS. And the new president is more easily intimidated or bribed. So spare me the 'Ah, they just wanted to kick him out' sillyness.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6911925/U-S-pressure-Ecuador-yields-Assange-arrest-bond-deal-help-struggling-economy.html
  1. Assange is indicted for trying (apparently NOT succeeding) in helping Manning crack some password, so that Manning would have been able to leak the information they had access to via Manning's work account, via another account. TO PROTECT THE SOURCE, Manning. It had nothing to do with hacking and everything to do with trying to protect a source, which a journalist is allowed to do.
(Manning leaked misconduct like a video of US Army shooting dead Reuters reporters from a heicopter and then shooting dead the people running to the shot journalists to rescue them.)
  1. The precedent that is set is not only that a journalist can be prosecuted for doing what journalists routinely do, if the government does not like the leak (no issues with leaks that help the government, obviously), but also, that any country can get a journalist of another country and publishing in and from another country extradited, if the country feels its laws and secrets were somehow violated by their own law. So China could, by analogy, get a NYT journalist extradited who got secret info from the Chinese government in a way China considers illegal.

You can think Assange is a piece of shit, but bending reality and facts to your preconceptions is not on.

ARDuke · 12/04/2019 07:24

I think that whatever your personal opinion of Assange is, being arrested for criticism of the government is a worrying development. Think about if this happened in Russia. If Russian police arrested a prominent whistleblower and critic of the Putin government, would any of you still stand by your claim that the whistleblower deserved to be arrested and stand trial?

That's the thing I can't get my head around. If you ask people in this country if our politicians can be trusted most people will say no. Yet they immediately accept that when a prominent critic of the government is arrested, the charges must have some substance. They seem to have faith in our system that if the person is innocent they will get a fair trial. Do you think that a Russian whistleblower would get a fair trial? What makes our politicians any more trustworthy, when they are regularly caught out lying to us? Is it just that people are blinkered when it comes to sexual related allegations, or do people not want to confront the reality that our government may be no better than the regimes we hear about across the world, where critics of the government get harassed with trumped up charges? You have to admit, it's a bit convenient for the government that a whistleblower causing them major headache just happens to have such serious allegations made against him.

PenguindreamsofDraco · 12/04/2019 07:12

Andrew O'Hagan wrote a blistering article for the LRB on Assange. I highly recommend it.

FannyCann · 12/04/2019 06:56

Another one who deleted my previous account. Wink

Anyway I'm trying to recall how much his original bail was, Jemima Khan was one of the people who stood surety and they all lost their money. So I assume there'll be no more bail options this time.

NicoAndTheNiners · 12/04/2019 06:50

If the max he could face in prison in America is 5 years why spend 7 years holed up in not great conditions in England? Which he must have realised he'd either have to do for life or come out and face the music at some point?

I'd rather just have gone to America and done the 5 years. He'd be a free man by now!

lucasthecat · 12/04/2019 06:48

I don’t have much time for Dianne Abbott and her views or Vivienne Westwood and her lazy and hypocritical thinking. - Assange is an unpleasant individual and should deal with all accusations in Sweden. However I don’t think he should be extradited to the US for essentially putting info he didn’t leak into the public domain. I also think and am willing to be told I’m wrong - that once in the US they will find new rather than old charges to try and put him in prison for a long time. The US penal system is pretty grim. Chelsea Manning is a person who appears to have some moral fibre ( I disagree with them on the ability to change sex of any human) at huge risk and cost they leaked footage of the US military shooting civilians etc- they were held in solitary prison facilities - and on a matter of principal they have ended up back in prison - for refusing to testify against others. Most people on these boards seem to believe in not being tribal, free speech and questioning authority and recieved wisdom. It’s those things that have led me to thinking someone as vile as Assangev deserves to be in court in Sweden but doesn’t deserve to be extradited to the USA

KindOfAGeek · 12/04/2019 02:42

FYI: Under the terms of the treaty between the US and the UK, extra retroactive charges cannot be added once a defendant is extradited.

I.e., If the US extradites him for computer conspiracy, the US cannot prosecute him for espionnage, or any other crime, that occurred before he was extradited.

Don't fall for the conspiracy theories. The request for extradition is for a charge with a maximum 5 year sentence.

Supermax prisons, FYI, are for the most violent --- the guys who could tunnel out of a maximum security prison to commit murder. They are not for a guy who fled to a friendly embassy to protect his brand's reputation from the damage his behavior has done.

XXcstatic · 12/04/2019 00:49

I don’t think he deserves life in a US super max prison - essentially 24 hour solitary comfinemnent - no sunlight etc - I still remember the videos and the audio of the civilians being shot that Chelsea Manning - leaked

LOL. That is not how it works. Assange is well-connected, well-off (thanks to idiot donors like Jemima Goldsmith) and white. He has allegedly committed a federal crime. He will therefore end up, if convicted, in a federal prison where conditions will probably be considerably better than an ambassadorial box room. And every publicity-hungry attorney in the US will be queuing up to defend him for the headlines and LOLs.

For reference: Paul Manafort (Trump advisor) - convicted of conspiracy to defraud the US, sentencing guidelines were 19-24 years. He got....47 months.

Jeffrey Epstein, friend of Trump & Clinton - a number of underage girls accused him of sexual abuse, including rape. He got.. 13 months in his own private wing of a jail and was allowed out 6 days a week on 'work release'.

stumbledin · 12/04/2019 00:30

It is saddening, even when a man is a proven activist for human rights or whatever, that somehow even women seem to think they will never be likely to be sexual predators. As history has proved all too many "great men" have been sexual abusers.

In the meantime here are some quotes which show he is just another anti woman self aggrandising prick whose only noteworthy work was actually done by Chelsea Manning, who accepted legal punishment unlike the coward Assange.

^In one astonishing scene, Assange talks to Helena Kennedy QC, who is advising him on how to deal with the allegations. Assange says, as if to excuse himself, that it is a “radical feminist conspiracy” and dismisses the complainants as lesbians. Kennedy tells him it is not helpful to talk like this. “No, not publicly,” he says, while being filmed. Her look of despair is priceless. Assange then explains why it is not in the best interests of the women to press charges. “An actual court case is going to be very hard for these women … they will be reviled for ever by a large segment of the world population. I don’t think it’s in their interest to proceed that way.’’

“His lawyers demanded we took this scene out, and another one where he talks about the investigation and the women involved. We didn’t, and then he sent a text saying the film is a threat to his freedom and he is forced to treat it accordingly.” What right did he have to make that demand? “He had no right. He had no editorial control over the film.”^

www.theguardian.com/film/2017/jun/29/laura-poitras-wikileaks-film-risk-julian-assange

Julian Assange referred to the two Swedish women who accused him of sexual assault as “treacherous” and claimed that the allegations were the result of “crazed radical feminist ideology”, it has emerged.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/julian-assange-swedish-women-s-sex-claims-are-crazed-feminism-b08z2m0xk

^One Assange lawyer had said in court, "If Sweden [said] sucking toes without washing.. is rape..then that would be an extradition offense? No."

The judge begged to differ. In parsing the several allegations, he wrote of the charge that Assange had penetrated a woman who had agreed to sex only with a condom:

"The obvious and straightforward way of reading that allegation is that the complainant had made it clear that she would not consent to unprotected sex, and yet it occurred without her knowledge and therefore without her consent. Mr Assange was aware of this. Unprotected sex is wholly different from protected sex in that its potential repercussions are not confined to disease and include pregnancy."^

jezebel.com/judge-orders-assange-back-to-sweden-5769148

Apart from the sheer male entitlement dont forget many journalists who do support free speech, and had wanted to work with him, abondoned him because of his lack of professionalism and unwillingness to do the real work of resposible editing and back ground check.

All he did is take the information handed to him and publish in total without assessing the consequence. He is just another computer nerd with lack of empathy, and if newspaper tittle tattle is to be believed, lack of hygiene.

As others have said thank goodness the cat was taken away from him.

Ereshkigal · 11/04/2019 23:49

How unsurprisingly that it was a women's bathroom which was appropriated.

Indeed.

2rebecca · 11/04/2019 23:47

Was he sleeping in the bath then or is he just pretending to be British?

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