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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Are there identifiable causes for being trans?

182 replies

T1meForDebate · 11/04/2019 10:21

Fionne is sharing some heartbreaking testimonies on Twitter from transwomen who were manipulated by their mothers - I do wonder if sometimes women project 'I wish you had been a girl' so strongly that the impressionable child starts to try to please?

Then there's the three year old boy who said he was a girl - only when given time to talk did it come out that his parents had a younger daughter with many special needs including extra time and attention. Little boy can only conclude they love girls more - so he insists he's a girl.

Debbie, the transman who transitioned at 44 (when menopause hit, maybe?) - and 15 years later bitterly regrets it because she's come to terms with the fact that it was triggered by her father's sexual abuse

The whole feeling lowest of the low if you're a lesbian or gay teen - but suddenly fashionably fascinating if you say you're trans

Irresponsible magazine calling a school the coolest in the country because so many children say they're trans - who wouldn't want to join the latest craze and get called cool in print?

Autistic children who find dealing with the world so difficult, suddenly also having to cope with new bits that look, feel, smell and behave differently, including hurting, and attracting wierd unwanted attention, reactions and touching

Kids whose interests, behaviour and dress don't fit the prescribed pink and blue approval lists being ushered through the 'you're clearly trans' door

Adults (including parents) who are so committed to wanting children kept in a pre adolescent form for longer than is natural that they develop, prescribe, promote and lobby for puberty blockers (what's that about?)

Charming, articulate and cute transmen publishing chirpy polished how-to videos on Instagram flourishing binders, mastectomy and phalloplasty scars to community cooing response - what a lovely welcoming sense of belonging endorphins that must trigger

final para removed by MN as it broke guidelines
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SummerPlace · 18/04/2019 03:32

I have two older brothers (10 and 7.5 years older) and remember my mum saying that she used to get really annoyed when my second brother was born and some people would say to her that she must have been disappointed not to have a girl as a second child. So there are people out there with skewed thinking.

Actually, she was just glad that the younger of my brothers, who was an extremely sickly child, made it to become a robust adult.

R0wantrees · 17/04/2019 13:08

from a current thread discussing Julie Bindel's recent articles about important feminists (linked previously)

OldCrone shared this 2003 article by Julie Bindel (embedded in the piece about Janice Raymond):

Abridged from The Sunday Telegraph Magazine, 15 November 2003

‘I changed for all the wrong reasons,
and then it was too late...’
When, if ever, should a person have a sex-change operation, and whose decision is it to make? Julie Bindel reports on concerns that psychiatrists are too ready to recommend the knife'
(extract)
‘I changed for all the wrong reasons, and then it was too late,’ says Claudia. ‘I was seen for 45 minutes by a psychiatrist in private practice, and I believe I was railroaded into thinking that an irreversible operation was the only solution. It made me feel they were just in it for my money.’ Claudia is currently unable to work due to depression, caused by the operation: ‘I feel like this sex change has just made me into some kind of freak.’

Dr Fiona Mason, a forensic psychiatrist with an expertise in gender issues, is seriously concerned about the practices of some private clinics dealing with transsexualism. ‘I can’t imagine assessing anyone suffering from a serious disorder in under three hours. It can take three years to assess patients with complex problems. The trouble with some private clinics is that the patients are just given hormones after an hour-long appointment, which can have an irreversible effect on the body.’

Some critics are even going as far as to say that psychiatrists have not, in fact, ‘discovered’ transsexuals but created them. That is, that once ‘transsexual’ and ‘gender-identity disorder’ (GID) became common currency more people began interpreting their experience in these terms. Specialists working in gender-identity clinics made similar complaints about their patients as early as the mid-1970s" (continues)
archive.li/1bcWN

OldCrone wrote, "An interesting perspective considering where we are now."

The article is worth reading in full, especially interesting to read Dr Russell Reid's comments & his involvement in (now, I believe, prohibited) surgical intervention for body dysmorphic disorder (BDD)

Datun · 17/04/2019 10:08

Someone called R0 a Nazi? Don't people realise that when they utter that word, everything thereafter doesn't get read?

You'd think, given the high suicide rate, the fact that TRAs say being trans subjects you to violence, intimidation, victimisation and discrimination, they'd be absolutely delighted to learn more about what causes gender dysphoria.

And I'm not really joking. Why on earth wouldn't you want to know? Unless you were perfectly upfront about it being men's rights activism.

Even raging autogynephiles often sound as though they'd give anything to be rid of the addiction (the bingeing and the purging etc).

So going out of your way to shut people down who are finding out about it is very odd.

KatvonHostileExtremist · 17/04/2019 09:37

I love Rowan trees, we always plant them outside our house as "protection" Grin.

Scottish tradition.

I haven't spotted this article on this thread, but I might have got distracted. It was posted in its own right recently and I thought it excellent.

Gender incongruence is broken up into the different groups it mainly effects, causes are different for each group.

4thwavenow.com/2017/12/07/gender-dysphoria-is-not-one-thing/

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 17/04/2019 09:25

I don't understand the nazis bit

They burnt books didnt they? They'd make crap librarians

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 17/04/2019 09:24

Thats certainly better that deleting the whole thread or OP

Thank you hope

HopeMumsnet · 17/04/2019 09:23

Hi all,
We've had the opening post reported to us and when we looked we did conclude that some of the wording in the final paragraph broke our guidelines. Rather than delete the OP (and risk making nonsense of the the entire thread at this late stage) we have taken the step of removing the final para and letting conversation flow.

Ereshkigal · 17/04/2019 01:14

Did someone call R0 a Nazi? Really? ConfusedHmm

heresyisthenewblack · 16/04/2019 23:41

Anne Lorne Gillies singing "The Rowan Tree"

BeUpStanding · 16/04/2019 23:34

The internet also says this about Rowan trees:

Greek mythology tells of the tree sprouting from drops of eagle’s blood, shed as it battled demons whilst recovering a sacred chalice. Each drop became a Rowan tree, its leaves taking the shape of eagles feathers and its berries stained blood red in remembrance.

The Rowan plays a greater role in Norse myth, being the tree from which the first woman was made. More dramatically, it saved Thor’s life when he was swept away by a fast flowing river in the Underworld. The Rowan bent its branch across the water for Thor to grab and pulled him back to shore.

www.salisburygreenhouse.com/mountain-ash-tree/

LangCleg · 16/04/2019 23:27

Brave. And. Stunning.

R0wantrees · 16/04/2019 23:24

Lady Nairne (1766-1845).

THE ROWAN TREE

Oh rowan tree, oh rowan tree,

Thou'lt aye be dear to me,

Entwined thou art wi mony ties,

O' hame and infancy.

Thy leaves were aye the first o' spring,

Thy flow'rs the simmer's pride;

There was nae sic a bonny tree

In a' the countrieside

Oh rowan tree! (continues)

heresyisthenewblack · 16/04/2019 23:22

Wait.... there's no card system? What about tarot cards?

R0wantrees · 16/04/2019 23:21

What about incantations?

Some poetry?

LangCleg · 16/04/2019 23:16

just to reassure any current monitors, there's no database, spreadsheet or even card system

What about incantations?

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 16/04/2019 23:14

r0 Grin

And heresys post is spot on!

R0wantrees · 16/04/2019 23:13

I don't identify as a Rowantree but was looking at one when I needed a username.
They are excellent trees! Lots of folklore

FloralBunting · 16/04/2019 23:12

just to reassure any current monitors, there's no database, spreadsheet or even card system

Just clever, insubordinate women with good memories and an ability to see the big picture and the integrity to stand for the truth.

heresyisthenewblack · 16/04/2019 23:11

There are some fun factoids about Rowan trees on Wikipedia. I like this one:
It was thought to be a magical tree and give protection against malevolent beings. The tree was also called "wayfarer's tree" or "traveler's tree" because it supposedly prevents those on a journey from getting lost.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rowan

That checks out.

R0wantrees · 16/04/2019 23:10

Grin I shall make a copy of that Rufus, thank you

(just to reassure any current monitors, there's no database, spreadsheet or even card system)

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 16/04/2019 23:01

I envisage r0 as more the guardian of the library

She is the one in front...obvs

Are there identifiable causes for being trans?
R0wantrees · 16/04/2019 22:28

Don't say you're coveting your neighbour's oxen as well R0

I do admire them but no, I definitely don't covet the early mornings neccessary to keep them & think it would be a bit of a squish to house them with us.

heresyisthenewblack · 16/04/2019 21:48

I might have seen R0wantrees by the oxen.

This is my impression of what she must have looked like: Halloween Smile

(But I like wearing the same hat Halloween Wink)

BeUpStanding · 16/04/2019 21:13

they're very nice cattle too

Don't say you're coveting your neighbour's oxen as well R0 Shock

OldCrone · 16/04/2019 21:00

My understanding is that many nascent gay or lesbian children imagine themselves to be the opposite sex, but mostly grow out of this - given the chance.

A few gay men have written about this:

If someone had told me as a child that I could actually be a little girl, I would have jumped at the chance. Anything to escape the pressure cooker of an active boyhood crammed full of sports and rough play.

quillette.com/2019/01/31/homophobia-and-the-modern-trans-movement/

“I really wanted to be a girl. Thank God the world of now wasn’t then, because I’d be on hormones and I’d be a woman. After I was 15 I never wanted to be a woman again.”

www.theguardian.com/film/2016/jun/19/rupert-everett-dangers-of-child-sex-change-operations-gender

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