Owen Jones

also I sulute anyone who does put aside differences to condeum this and it is hearting to see many do so but why the doubts it ouccured?

really sad to see that people are not willing to beleive someone when they are assaulted and that they don't wish to condeum the people that did it, as is so often asked of people on here.

Apparently he said a bunch of men beat him up.

I just wonder how he knew they were men, did they tell him how they identified or did he just assume their gender.

Feel very sorry for him being beaten up and of course it's wrong. He knows what a man is when the chips are down though.

It would also be wonderful to see people condemn, for example, the attacks on Maria MacLachlan, Helen Steel and Julie Bindel. There were some people who tried to claim that Maria provoked the attackers. OJ was one of them. I hope all of us can rise above that kind of victim-blaming.

Quite. I abhor violence. It would be nice for OJ to be less selective in his abhorrence of it, too.

Same Floisme. Hopefully he will think on, though.

I'm going to stick to condemning the attack and wishing Owen Jones a speedy recovery. I'm sure something like that must shake you up badly, even if you appear to have got away without injury. If Jones has previously made comments about the use of violence that now appear compromising then that's his problem and it doesn't alter my own stance.

A little article highlighting Owen’s ambivalence towards violence:

uncommongroundmedia.com/owen-jones-our-condolences-you-hypocrite/

And yet I understand he was up bright and breezy appearing on tv the morning after, and passing comments to press outlets quite readily.

Also no word on any of his mates who were also allegedly assaulted by this pack of violent military style men.

I was sure I had read somewhere that he had been punched, bleeding, to the ground. However, even if he has no visible injuries, he should have sought medical attention, having been kicked in the head. You can get bleeding to the brain away from the injury site that does not show up immediately.

Interesting and wholly on-point contribution from Julie Bindel:

twitter.com/bindelj/status/1163407090842558464

Text for anyone who can't see Twitter image:

I am appalled at the attack on Owen Jones. That statement is unequivocal and without reservation. It has been impossible for me not to be affected by the stark contrast in the way some media reported on the assault on me back in June. I was pretty much blamed and disbelieved.

We need to be honest about what is happening here. Press reports do not come out of the clouds. Headlines and standfirsts are not written by robots. Victim blaming of women is a political act.

Some violent attackers are very good at assaulting people in a way that doesn't leave a physical mark. This is what happens to a lot of women who are domestically abused, unfortunately.

But I am surprised he didn't go to a doctor if he was kicked in the head. Untreated head injuries can be really dangerous - look at Natasha Richardson.

He ought to have gone to a doctor if he was kicked in the head, he could have a concussion. Maybe he talked to someone though, a medic or whatever.

NAGS TOJ

(Not all gay sons thinklike OJ.)

Thank fuck.

I'm a bit with you @BuzzShitbagBobbly

not a mark on him on tv yesterday........ but you'd think after such a brutal attack as described on social media there would at least be some red mark/scratch/bruise somewhere no?

Something isn't smelling quite right here.

Apparently there was no medical treatment needed at all after this. Which doesn't exactly concur with the reports of him having been so brutally attacked.

LOJ's own comments say the unidentified attackers "threw me on the ground, slamming my head, and kicked me in the skull" and other reports cite blows to the head and being "karate kicked" in the back - all from a group of men who "charged out of the pub with military precision”).

You'd expect at least a check up after a gang beating that severe, just to be safe; and also as evidence, right? But there's not so much as a hastily snapped phone pic.

(NB, the initial Guardian report has now removed the "karate kick to the back" reference, but I didn't screengrab it before refreshing the page.

attacking someone because you disagree with their opinions is 100% not OK. I hope the police catch the dick heads that did it and throw the fucking book at them.

I don't want to live in a society where anyone fears physical attack because of the opinions they hold

It’s that kind of attitude that is disturbing from the left wing. The idea that their violent tendencies are irrelevant because the other side are evil.

This.
You have to be pretty naive to be unaware of the history of left wing movements and violence.

And there is a kind of responsibility we have to be aware of negative or wrongheaded tendencies in our own groups as well, and condemn them and the thinking that leads to them. Not just externally, but personally.

There is very little chance that my own thinking has been infected by the errors of right wing individualism. But it might have elements of the same thinking that leads to people on the left being ok with violence or totalitarianism, or it might have elements of the thinking that leads to relativism, or the underlying errors of identity politics. In fact it would be odd if these things didn't find their way into my thinking. Therefor it's my responsibility to drag them into the light of my consciousness and expunge them, and the logic that follows from them. And collectively it's our responsibility on the left to do that for the left.

Those on the right have to do that for themselves and the ones with integrity do.

"The idea that their violent tendencies are irrelevant because the other side are evil."

This.
The extreme right and the extreme left are different sides of the same coin.
How many times have we heard TRA's (who are probably on the extreme left) describe feminists as extreme right, when in fact feminists are just ordinary people who want to fight for women's rights.

The point is the eroding of the line between peaceful protest and violent attack. Yes, being hit by a milkshake is not as bad as being stabbed to death. It's the thin edge of the same wedge, though.

I'm with Brendan Cox on the topic of milkshakes:

twitter.com/mrbrendancox/status/1130471629732155392?lang=en

How does someone else’s worse violence excuse anyone else woman19 ?

It’s that kind of attitude that is disturbing from the left wing. The idea that their violent tendencies are irrelevant because the other side are evil.

That’s the direct road to Nazi, no steps should be taken down it, however small.

I'm in two minds.

On the one hand, violence is bad, no one should be attacked on the streets, etc. In general terms I condemn this attack.

Other the other hand, when I mentally rewrite the headline of the BBC article I saw about this to "Misogynistic lesbophobe attacked in street" and remember that he's known for prioritising male feelings over female safety... It gets a bit harder to summon up righteous anti-violence sentiment in this specific case.

But obviously position one is of utmost importance, because my feelings aren't more important than anyone else's physical safety either.

Corollary to (5): if we condone the milkshaking of powerful men, we must condone the milkshaking of powerful women. Do you think that societal approval of dousing female MPs in milkshake will encourage or discourage women from standing for election?

woman19

1. What EverardDigby said.
2. Victim doesn't know it's only milkshake, it could contain acid, concrete, Novichok...
3. Victim could be allergic to milk proteins.
4. If milkshake is OK but murder isn't, where do we draw the line? Do we say that a slap is OK but a punch isn't? Do we say that egging is OK but slapping isn't? Who gets to draw that line?
5. If we condone the milkshaking of powerful men, it becomes much harder to decry men throwing water/tea/coffee/beer over their wives as abusive.

Violence is almost always wrong, including in this instance.

Other than that, this is a male on male crime....not sure what women are expected to do about it.

If you're a survivor of abuse anything thrown at you can have a significant effect. And there are people who have vascular conditions that any shock or surprise that raises their blood pressure could kill them (my DF is one). IMO it's all on a spectrum anyway.