What is wrong with females having single sex spaces to attend to needs which come of their female status?

It's not even about violence necessarily. I cannot stand the male gaze. I have always hated, even as a young woman, to be looked at and assessed and desired by men whom I did not know. I find it creepy that a man might be imagining having sex with me. So for me, single sex changing rooms are also a matter of privacy. I just don't want to get naked with strange men, even if they don't assault me, and surely I should have that right.

Plus it absolutely shows that the beardy-woke-fucking-men on Twitter, telling women how to think, and how to behave, have way more empathy with transwomen than they do with women.

And that's really fucking demonstrative too. Women's spaces are for women, not penises.

What the fuck is wrong with people?

I know. I woke up thinking about this, this morning! Because it's not just transwomen belly-aching on about being allowed in women's spaces - it's about 10,372,563 beardy men on Twitter too.

Where do these woke beardy-fucking-men get off, telling women what their boundaries should be?

Well of course, it's the age-old reason - an objection to women having their own autonomy. It's no coincidence that before the TRA came along, it's was the MRA - attacking Mumsnet, literally objecting to women discussing stuff amongst themselves.

I read Dominic Lawson's piece in the Mail yesterday about gender neutral loos, and it made me realise how far the TRA have come in breaking women's boundaries down.

Men (or women) who fail to respect a woman or child's rights to boundaries - to say no - are the problem.

It's the response of a predator.

It leads to transphobia - previously I'd have assumed that any trans woman in the loo was vulnerable. Now I wonder if they are a rapist pretending to be trans.

Yep. I started with a live and let live philosophy. And now the more I see, the more suspicious I am.

*male

On the eg toilets front, I suppose if a transwoman is out fully dressed and styled as a female, they feel they cannot use the men's toilets since they'd stick out like a sore thumb, possibly be challenged (if they 'pass' as female), possibly be harassed or attacked if they encounter a less tolerant man or men etc so they feel they should use the women's. But that can create a problem for women and girls; i suppose the answer is separate unisex toilets but not everywhere is going to be able to provide that. (Plus some transwomen will say they shouldn't have to and be opposed to it(.

Incidentally I feel very differently about post op/fully sex changed transwomen using female only facilities compared to intact make bodied trans 'women'; do you feel that way too?

The more you look into it all the worse it gets.

Or, is it the culture of the trans community using web forums to spread their delusion that they are, in truth, female that leads to the belief that they are the same as me?

I have no idea what gender clinics tell (or don't tell) transwomen. One would hope (?!) that they'd give any transitioning person realistic information; but who knows.

Yes, it's the trans community in part, I think, but also simply that (having decided they are the opposite sex) their ultimate desire is to truly be that sex and be recognised as that sex. It's not really possible but that's not what they are internally driven to believe. I suppose (in a much much lesser way, possibly not a good comparison) it's similar to how people hope and believe they'll look after cosmetic surgery and fillers IE themselves at 25, dewy, youthful, glowing and natural .. compared to how they actually look (like a wax work), they are sold the fantasy but they also sell themselves the fantasy and believe it to some extent.

I don’t really get it either, in this age of being your true authentic self, why not own being a Trans Woman? Biological male who for any number of reasons wishes to present as female.
But still use Male spaces.
Too many wish to use women as human shields from male violence, yet don’t understand why we fear men in our sex segregated spaces....

As far as I'm concerned, they and the women who are so eager to share locker rooms, prison cells, dormitories and toilets with them , are welcome to have their own "feminine gender" [or whatever they want to call it] spaces. Go for it, knock yourselves out. But it shouldn't mean the rest of us can't retain our lawful female-only spaces with privacy (and safety) away from males.

OP I am nodding along to every point you make....it seems so obvious.

"women just want to be left alone in there, it's not a trans issue at all, it's about women's choices being disrespected *.

This seems so obvious doesn't it....until I considered that what is actually playing out here is about POWER and control.

So many people, in the absence of a sense of power and control over their own lives ("I am not as rich as I think I should be", "I'm not as popular as I think I should be") look for power and control over others.

Women have always been that convenient out-group for men....regardless of how weak an individual male might be, at least he could satisfy himself that he wasn't a (ugh!) woman. He always sat higher in the hierarchy above all women.

Now that women have achieved some level of autonomy and power in society (not equal but some level)...well, if you're a less adequate adult (who happens to be male) what do you do then?

And I truly believe that some of this toxic trans agenda is the backlash against increasing female autonomy. (not all trans are like that etc etc)

Couple that with the lack of empathy training that many male children get (socialisation...boys will be boys etc.) and here we are.
Women's choices are not seen as valid, our voices are disrespected.

It's because not being able to get into a female space, when you believe you are female and want everyone else to believe you are female; is the biggest exhibition there can possibly be, that you are not.

That you are not a 'full' female, a normal female, not a truly legitimate female.

Since that is what some transwomen want, in fact there's nothing they want more, they cannot accept it. It's a denial of their most fundamental beliefs and wants.

Also some sexual predators will of course take advantage in the way they do of any opportunity

I agree OP. As a fairly normal, reasonable women, I don't go busting into the men's changing rooms because they would prefer to change without women looking at their dangly bits (and presumably get on with it without in turn seeing my dangly bits).

There's nothing wrong with sex segregation, especially when it's physically related (toiletting, changing rooms, accommodation, healthcare etc.)

There's not a woman on the planet who has drilled down into transgenderism who hasn't dug up the most disgusting misogyny as a consequence.

Oh yes.

Because "what about the men?"

Remember OP, the world revolves around them, and we're just lucky that they want to have sex with us.

Eunuchs in female spaces to ensure the women aren't revolting is an age-old patriarchal tactic. We're just seeing a new version of it.

Because some men don't perceive women as automonous human beings, just as accessories to men, therefore we aren't entitled to have anything that they don't allow us to have.

Transgenderism is a men's sexual "rights" activism .. they assume the "right" to behave sexually in any way they choose, in any place they choose and at any time they choose. It is about their sense of supremacy with regard to men's sexual arousal, which is enhanced when they can achieve this by way of violating women's and girls' boundaries.