WPUK meeting in London 20 May with Meghan Murphy, Julie Bindel, Selina Todd

bernard there are of course other ways to 'treat' GD than affirmative care.

Of course this then requires recognising it as a condition.

So the whole GRA becoming self id thing is a mess as it denies people appropriate care. But then also requires examination of what Gender v sex is.

Wow what a great evening that was! To be surrounded by women who are aware of the issues I’ve been reading about both here and on Twitter for so long, and are equally enraged by them, was awesome. I’m so glad I made the effort to go.

Also to meet up in the pub with other MNetters beforehand was great, such a brilliant bunch you all are!

Also, I had a little chat with Graham Lineham in the pub afterwards. I’m not one for going up to celebrities but I wanted to genuinely thank him for what he has done, using his platform to raise awareness of these issues, at great personal cost to himself. What a lovely man he was!

Thank you to everyone who made last night happen, I personally feel emboldened by it and inspired and encouraged to keep up the fight. And to know that I’m not alone and that together we are potentially so powerful!

My favourite phrase of the night was Julie saying, ‘the only time I want to hear the phrase ‘her penis’ is when a woman has chopped off a man’s dick and is holding it in her hand!’ 😂

The other thing that stuck in my mind from last night was Julie Bindel's point that many trans people are actually victims in this. They are pushed into taking strong drugs and surgery off the back of woefully little time spent investigating their motivations. The medial profession has a lot to answer for in this.

It reminded me of this article that R0wantrees often links to
For about 13 years, I also masqueraded “as a woman,” taking medical measures which suggest, shall we say, that I was completely committed to that lifestyle. Most men would have recoiled from this, but in my estrogen-drug-soaked stupor it seemed like a good idea. In 2013 I stopped taking estrogen for health reasons and very rapidly came back to my senses. I ceased all effort to convey the impression that I was a woman and carried on with life.

I was a bit disappointed by Julie and Selina's unequivocal 'No' to the question of whether feminists should work with the right. Meghan and Maya's pragmatic, qualified yes makes much more sense to me.

As Meghan said, what support have feminists had from the left in this? Jack shit. As a movement they do not have our backs, rather the opposite, so there's no need to go all surrendered wife on them.

If you don't think feminists should work with the right.....don't do it. But the fantastic things is that the movement is growing. There are lots of groups now, with lots of different approaches. To people who value ideological purity that might feel like they're losing control, but to me it feels like amazing, fantastic progress.

I was there and thought it was brilliant. I felt so privileged to be there listening to some extraordinary women and surrounded by a roomful of fellow feminists. There hasn't been a feminist movement like this since the 1970s.

I didn't have time to make it to the pub beforehand, and reluctantly didn't go to the pub afterwards either, what with it being a weekday. Perhaps I should have thrown caution to the winds! I didn't see Glinner there, so sorry I missed that. It does seem to have been a heck of a turnout. I think someone said Francis Wheen (deputy editor of Private Eye) was there too, which gives me some hope.

Oh, and all the speakers were great - I am in absolute awe of how Bindel has put up with so much crap over the years. She did an absolutely riproaring speech. Selina Todd was a revelation - calm, measured, thoughtful but utterly incisive. Her students are so lucky to be taught by her. I can't tell you how angry I feel that a bunch of over-privileged, spoilt wankers are demanding for her to be sacked for "transphobia".

The interruption was from Dr Julia Long, who, having heard the answers on not collaborating with the right asked if WPUK could then justify their work with David Davies, without whom there would not have been a meeting in parliament.

I do understand the reluctance to partner with what had once been the enemy. This has been an eye opening time for me, would never have looked at a paper other than The Guardian, particularly a Murdock one, but now buy The Times. And here we are, going into another election, and many of us here are politically homeless (for the first time ever I will spoil my ballot paper on Thursday) because the party(s) that should be defending my rights have sold me down the river.

Mangoes represents my feelings on this perfectly. There is too much at stake to let tribalism get in the way of us clawing back our hard won rights.

It sounds like the meeting was fabulous. I know a couple of attendees - brand new to anything feminist - and they absolutely loved it. Selina Todd was a revelation to them!

Following the hash tag as I was, I'm looking forward to watching Todd when they get the video up. My understanding was that she drew a clear relationship between neoliberalism (economy) and postmodernism (society) and showed how this whole genderist movement is really just a power-friendly extension of Thatcherism. Hooray! Finally! My thoughts precisely!

Agree that WPUK is basically the socialist feminist caucus of GC activism. Their founders and main members are never going to be keen on even specific, strategic alliances with anyone on the right. This places no onus on the rest of us, however - I'm probably well to the left of most of the women who attended last night but I personally have no problem with cross political alliances provided they are clearly delineated and all the usual gloves are off for everything else.

Maya, you are fast becoming a legend of gender critical feminism! I hope you will speak at more events. You show how we can achieve our aims in practice. You're also articulate, witty, and realistic.

Not directed at you at all XX - sorry if it read that way! And I do get that WPUK are socialist but surely even they must be raging at how the left has treated them.

I didn't mean it as a criticism, Floisme - just as context for understanding the WPUK resistance to working with the Right. People may or may not agree with that stance, but it makes perfect sense in the context of being a feminist socialist movement.

WPUK may be socialist but was there a single left of centre MP there last night? Has one ever attended a meeting or sent a message of support? I'm guessing not.

We're on our own and, much as I love Julie Bindel, she's not the head girl of women and I'll talk to whomever I like.

I thought the question on right wing alliance was pertinent. It was raised against the backdrop of the anti abortion laws in Atlanta and Georgia.
I agree with Megan - It's fine to talk to people but has to be nuanced.
The Times, Spectator ... bring it on. Tommy Robinson and Nigel Farage - ummm... not so much.
Misogyny is on the left and the right - and women on both sides, no sides or in the centre who are fighting it are friends of mine even though we won't agree on everything.
When this juggernaut is pushed back, we can redraw the battlelines again.

It would have been lovely to meet up with some of you - too bad I was late and it was a school night.

It did feel a little bit historic? Or is that me just getting carried away with the atmosphere? I did like Julie Bindle's call to arms!

Does any one know what happened to the final panel member? It was great to hear from you Maya though - thanks for standing in. Liked that Helen Steel was bought into the discussion too - felt very apt.

I liked Megan's handling of the Q too - but I don't agree that she deflected it?

My takeaway was that whilst she ruled out a formal alliance, she wasn't against ad hoc partnering to address specific issues in specific circumstances (eg. Transactivism in US)

I think I agree with this whilst also concurring with Selina's more strategic point that the overarching goal of liberation won't be delivered without a challenge to the status quo - which the right are invested in maintaining.

I thought Megan astutely highlighted that one was about short term tactics, the other long-term strategy.

debbie and ewe so lovely to meet you

Maya you were amazing, such a great speech. "By gender they mean sex"

I thought Selina Todd was extraordinary too. Imagine studying with her. She was incredible.

I wish I could have talked to everyone there! I was thinking mumsnet friends!! Who are you!

Meghan Murphy deflected the question well apparently.

She did indeed.

Oops. Sorry wasn't paying attention to instructions. Was too overexcited by the two levels of seating and being asked to be on the panel at the last minute. Have deleted

Despite the clear warning from Ruth S (who chaired the meeting), I see people took photographs of the audience and have tweeted them. This includes one of the speakers who did this.

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1130604336776699904?s=20

It was a wonderful night! And lovely to meet some of you.

I agreed with meghan and maya’s take on the “right wing allegiance” question, namely that talking to people who have different views to you isn’t the same as aligning on everything.

How do we change people’s minds if we no platform ourselves?

WPUK is a socialist organisation. Their manifesto, launched today, makes this even clearer than it was before. I'm not a socialist, and there's plenty I disagree with in the new, broader manifesto, but I still admire intensely all they have done to champion women's rights.

Great meeting. Huge numbers and a very positive atmosphere. The mood has definitely shifted from defensiveness to making progress.

Lovely to meet some people from MN there as well.

The interruption was from Dr Julia Long who no doubt felt attacked by the question on whether feminists should ally with the right wing.

I couldn’t work out what the interruption was about either. It passed quickly and everything else was good natured and inspiring.

Great night and probably as close as many of us will come to knowing what suffragette meetings might have been like.

I heard the questions from Jean Hatchett and Rosa F but just after this there was an “outburst” or an uninvited question from a woman in the crowd to (aggressively) Julie Bindel - can someone tell me what that was about ? (I’m a little deaf)

Amazing night and I was so starstruck too. Looking round the venue and then the pub and seeing all my feminist heroes was extraordinary. I especially appreciated that that Glinner came but didn’t speak or in any way attempt to take away attention from the amazing women on stage. How incredible to be in a room where only women’s voices were heard for two hours. I take some bravery away.