Any insight? Attack on Coron Kraatz

You've argued all thread about the where. Most everyone else is asking why

Again, how can we know?

Possibly it was because Coron is trans. Though the article says she was atfacked twice before she transed.

So maybe it was bullying maybe it was solely based on Coron being trans or a combination.

From how it sounds the school was doing the best to accommodate the needs of all students so what can be done to prevent this? Were there signs that this could happen? Did the attacker have behaviour issues that might have indicated this was likely to happen?

What are your suggestions?

Shit! Lord that's horrific. Poor child. Devastated parents.

Ok you say I don't see why the discussion isn't about what happened

Don't we know what happened?

You've argued all thread about the where. Most everyone else is asking why

What happened is past and passed and everyone here has condemned it.

To stop it happening again we need to know why surely?

I still don't know what you would do to fix this

Certainly the location doesn't provide a reason, an excuse or justification for this attack.

Nobody is using anything as an excuse or justification. But looking for ways to make everyone safer, includes discussing possible reasons. You don’t have to join in that conversation but endless arguing about what the rest of us can or cannot discuss and the motivations of posters is blimin annoying. You’ve made your point, many many times, do you want to discuss violence in schools now? You’ve really drawn this out arguing of what words other people use and what we can or cannot discuss. I’m sick of it.

And my point about the girls changing room not being safe was that it was the attacker that was unsafe so wherever she was could not be described as a safe space.

GirlDownUnder

I don't see why the discussion isn't about what happened rather than posters trying to argue that it probably happened in the girls changing room, as though that is a reason for it happening.

My point about the boys changing room was simply pointing out that no conclusion can be drawn from the phrase "changing rooms". Some posters are assuming that means girls changing rooms and that Coron shouldn't have been there. Equally it could mean boys changing room and the attacker shouldn't have been there.

Either way, or if you use the first article and assume the attack happened in the corridor, I don't think the location matters. Certainly the location doesn't provide a reason, an excuse or justification for this attack.

There was a little girl beaten to death recently at school. She had been attacked before and the school didn’t protect her.

So yes, girls can be viscious thugs.

Betty so sorry for what you went through.

There's a few deleted comments so I might be behind the curve

Mouse I don't really know what your point is.

I talked about your use of safe earlier but no response and now you are saying:

The first article makes no suggestion that this happened anywhere other than in a corridor

How do you know the changing rooms weren't actually the boys changing rooms and the attacker followed Coron in?

And earlier I’m sure you implied girls change rooms were not safe either.

You seem to be advocating for removal of the perpetrator, saying all areas are unsafe while they are there.

So, what do you want? This is nothing to do with who (it’s only being reported because one of the pupils is trans - fuck I’d have loved to have had this much outrage or notice when I was sexually attacked in school),nothing to do with where, and I do not see what you actually want to happen next.

How would you fix this?

I once intervened when a gang of teenage girls were attacking two other teenage girls in the street, one of whom was on the ground having her head kicked in by the very violent female ringleader of the gang. It turned out afterwards that the victim had had her skull fractured by the kicking.

Weirdly enough the attack didn't rate a mention in the local papers, even though I imagine if an adult had been attacked in the same way it would have been covered. Maybe people don't care that much about what happens teenage girls.

A great deal of violent bullying goes on in schools. This attack is yet another example of it. I hope the victim will be OK and the school will find ways of protecting them properly.

Is there a female word equivalent to seminal? Musing...

VickyEadie yes excellent suggestion, thank you

Ooh Vicky I've been wondering who wrote that! I'm off to see if I can download a copy from Gutenberg or the Open Library!

My friend, Timo’s muder, as reported as a long read in the Guardian Weekend magazine, shortly after the trial, a year after the murder:

www.theguardian.com/theobserver/2000/jun/04/life1.lifemagazine8

Timo’s parents are still living with the consequences of loss, almost 20 years later, but both of them firmly blame the system that failed to intervene and prevent the perpetrators ever reaching this point.

Where is the disproportionate coverage? The articles linked are in a local newspaper.

And if you are going to discuss it why not discuss the facts? Why try and make up facts to suit your own agenda?

The first article makes no suggestion that this happened anywhere other than in a corridor. Why are you all dismissing that report and then using a very odd term of phrase "walking through the changing rooms" to mean present in the girls changing rooms?

How do you know the changing rooms weren't actually the boys changing rooms and the attacker followed Coron in?

And why no discussion about the other 2 attacks? They were in public and not in sex segregated spaces.

ALL children, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, should be safe in schools.

That they aren’t, means that schools in general, and this school in particular, means that safeguarding protocols need to be revisited, regularly.

I’ve menetioned before (once in detail, although I think the thread was deleted due to being started by a GF) that a male friend of mine was murdered, completely at random, by a gang of 6 that included a teenage girl. All of the gang had had significant issues growing up that had not been adequately addressed by social services/schools/youth offending teams etc.

This was back in 99, and I believe that 5/6 have now been released. At least two have been rearrested and imprisoned. 1 will likely never be released (personality disorder - can not adhere to prison rules so will likely never be paroled).

Coron’s awful treatment is almost definitely due to systemic failure, some of which will have been compounded by financial cuts to services/austerity measures.

It is NOT acceptable that Coron be treated in this manner, but to blame Mumsnet/GC feminists is to use Coron as a political pawn. If TRAs are sincere at wanting this kind of violence to be resolved, they need to look at the bigger picture, which is what we are trying to do.

Many of the women posting here have trans identifying/gender questioning children, either in their own families or in their extended families/social networks. The last thing we want is for children to be subjected to violence (or for those growing up in situations that make them likely to inflict violence to not have significant, timely interventions).

Worth considering that one of the linked stories on the local newspaper site is this one: www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/humberside-police-bully-video-assault-2547877

This is not a trans specific issue, and to treat it as such fails ALL children.

I just feel very uncomfortable using the attack of one child in order to discuss wider policies.

It’s the feminism board. It’s what happens, we discuss the wider implications of policies that may or may not have directly affected incidents reported on, amongst many other things.

This is but one of tens of thousands of attacks of violence in schools, as sad as it is, it is being given disproportionate coverage and attention and that can lead to the wrong focus. This board is very concerned with the safety of children and child victims of violence and sexual abuse, regardless of their sex. So when something is in the news like this, it’s very common to discuss all the issues that may be behind our violent culture in schools. Dismissing it as simply the act of one person and insisting no other discussion takes place, is very unhelpful and very much part of the problem.

If it was irrelevant you wouldn't have gone to such ridiculous lengths insisting that "changing rooms" meant something completely different.

You'd be posting about how girls shouldn't attack boys who were walking through their changing rooms. And we'd all agree and talk about how to protect all children from this happening again.

You can't understand why?
Of course you can.

You insisted it made no sense, and yet it's perfectly understandable to many of us.

It's explicitly stated that C was in the changing rooms. There's no presumption on my part at all.
My presumption, given that the attack was by a girl, is that they were not the male rooms.

You are tying yourself in knots desperately trying to make the words "walking through the school's changing rooms" mean anything other than what it actually does.

If the article is wrong, it will be corrected.
Until then, people will take it at face value.

It's perfectly obvious why you are going to such extreme lengths to persuade yourself that "walking through the school's changing rooms" means something completely different.

It's because it's relevant.

But we know so little that we can't actually draw any conclusions other than we know that one child was attacked and had their head stamped on by another child.

I think the where it happened is irrelevant simply because we don't know where it happened other than at school.

It's kind of how safeguarding works. When something terrible happens, you look at it and try to see what you could do differently to prevent something similar from happening again. The title of the thread was asking for insights, so people are discussing from that sort of perspective.
I think everyone without exception has correctly prioritised concern for the victim and disgust at the attacker as their first reaction.