A really interesting article for anyone experiencing narcisstic behaviour in their lives

Great resources.

Great thread. Useful to get some regular grounding reading great articles and remembering why no contact is so important, just can't give an inch 😕

I listened to this yesterday and found it chilling after reading up about narcissists. I wondered what others on this thread thought? Maybe I'm seeing them everywhere
player.fm/series/where-should-we-begin-with-esther-perel/s2-ep-7-ive-had-100-conversations-with-you-in-my-head

Esther Perel is a respected relationship counsellor but I think this episode shows how narcissists can manipulate therapy. I had to stop listening as the man creeped me out so much

@Melroses this is exactly what I needed!!!

This thread is awesome!

Yes thank you @Badpennyfor the Gavin de Becker link😊
I read his book several years ago now and in my memory I didn't think much of it, it didn't really speak to me but re-reading it now I can't imagine why I came to that conclusion, it sure does speak to me now!

Thanks for posting that link to The Gift Of Fear BadPenny - I've been wanting to read it for a while

Forced teaming is talked about in The Gift of Fear. its using statements implying there is a connection that already exists between individuals or a group.
It often starts of with using language such as 'what are we doing?' by someone who walks into a group or conversation, to imply there is a connection. If no one in the group challenges the statement it gives false legitimacy to that individual.
(which is an example of diffused responsibility - people assume someone else must have checked them out)

PDF;
tinyurl.com/GiftoFear

Thank you for those links - very helpful. In my attempts to deal with a covert narcissist colleague, I brought in a female colleague. But the 'don't expect sympathy, they save that for themselves' comment in the other article exactly describes her reactions. Last time I saw her she tried to get me to sympathise with her for her not managing to help.

opencda.com/?p=16873

Has anyone got any more info on 'Forced Teaming'? It is an interesting one where you end up sucked into helping someone else's manipulative efforts, and enabling narcissism.

I wonder if this is the reason people fail to stand up and say something when they see things happening that they know are wrong.

In my experience these types are very prone to overplaying their hands because they are confident in their ability to dominate and control you
Step back and analyse, spot the techniques and the paterns, find a way to avoid being triggered, I'm in favour of keeping your powder dry, never breaking cover, tempting as it is to let them know that you're onto them giving into this urge to gloat is often the undoing of a narcissist, don't let it be your undoing
If you openly humiliate them or get the better of them there is always a strong possibility of a revenge attack

Thanks for this great thread , so many useful links, a great resource.

How good that we can talk about this here on MN. It’s amost as if women’s views and experiences have value .

MotherForkinShirtBalls sounds like you’re doing the right thing

greenberet

Sorry to say, I’ve learnt relatively late in life that any man who describes his ex as ‘crazy’ should not be taken at face-value. I’ve not got involved with any of them, but if I’d known sooner, I could have warned a few friends!

Another thank you to all the pps on this thread, the covert narcissist info especially was a real eye opener.

I’ve shared this to “relationships” - I have been posting articles on and off over the years on narcisstic behaviour and emotional abuse as I’ve come across them -

I was ignorant to all this - I got the “I’m not sure I love you anymore” followed by the cheaters script and subsequently a divorce from hell. I am pursuing complaints against all professionals involved and meant to represent me - I got screwed over by my X - he manipulated the whole process - used his charm - after all he was “personality of the year” in his industry and I am the crazy ex wife with depression which translates as being “unhinged”

As for children you have to educate them - emotional abuse can be very very subtle and if you are dealing with someone who has a narcistic character they will not entertain that it is them in anyway!

I’ve no doubt my X thinks I’m the one who’s abusive, controlling and possibly narcisstic, that I have brainwashed my kids and filled their heads with shite - despite the hell ive been through - this has given me the chance to make sure they get this - they have had their world turned upside down - I have tried my best to protect them from all this but I was severly let down by the justice system and I cannot perform miracles! But I have searched my soul inside and out and they know this too!

A fascinating thread. Thank you all for sharing, and I am sorry you are having to deal with these monsters.

noraclavicle, sorry to hear you and your dc have real life experience. Sounds like just keeping talking about their lives and friends is a good start. They are only young (7&9, and still at ages to talk to me!) but I've been trying to build their resilience in all sorts of ways since they were tiny, so I guess we'll keep doing that and build on it as necessary.

with narcissists, accusations are admissions. When they're arguing, it's not with you: they're shouting at themselves in the mirror.

I've never heard this before but it is probably the truest sentence I have ever read. Thank you.

Apropos of nothing, I feel like shouting from the rooftops "I LOVE MUMSNET" right now. What a valuable resource for women, a beacon of common sense, and what an amazing bunch of women here on FWR.

I have learnt so much from you all. Thank you everybody.

@MNHQ I hope you're feeling the love right now ❤️

MotherForkinShirtBalls I’m teaching daughter and son! We have excellent case study material (sadly) in the form of a narc grandparent on either side in both covert & exhibitionist form and of both sexes. So they know the damage and distress it causes.

The DCs have already experienced it in their friendship groups too - it astonishes me that narc behaviour can start so young, but there you go. We’re lucky in that we have a very open and communicative relationship with the DCs and we talk a lot about what they’re experiencing and how they might avoid or deal with narc behaviours now and in the future.

This is fascinating and terrifying reading. Thanks to every contributing and to all with real life experiences.

May I ask how you are teaching your daughters about these things? Luckily I don't have personal experience to draw on, but I don't want my children to be unaware.

Thanks for the links here and on the other thread, I literally just sent them to a friend in NZ whose Ex is saying, ‘ I’ll never let you go’ She is very grateful to us

Just adding my thanks to everybody for posting these links. Such useful resources, and I agree we should be teaching our children this stuff so they're better able to spot it.

I think my XH is a covert narcissist. Thank the goddess I got out.