transgender supportive, TRA unsupportive

Ihavent I went to the cinema last night and saw for the first time the anti-hate crime tv ad (I mean it's only been out since October so I've no idea how I missed it ) and it showed various examples of hate towards various protected characteristics. And tagged on to the end was "transgender identity ". Now unless something has changed I'm pretty sure this isn't a protected characteristic yet?! Interestingly there wasn't an example of it shown like the others.

I think what pissed me off though was that "hate" (again, no actual example given of what this may look like, verrrry woolly) towards this group wouldn't be accepted but some bloke heckling my DD in a sexually suggestive manner is all hunky dory and not a hate crime.

Apologies for also derailing thread.

Yup. And id take it further. I think we need to view the issues in terms of vulnerability to harm. Who is likely to be harmed by what policy, and who is being harmed by failure to have policy in place. How many cases do we actually have of non-cis women harming women and how many cases do we have of transwomen being harmed in virtue of their identity.

BadPennyNoBiscuit Where is OP?

Probably off alerting people to come get screenshots while they're hot...

Oh man

I fucked up my hashtag!

And bloody 8 year olds can do them!!!

Ignore floral

Im a fuckimg delight

But yeah #bemore datun

Yes, got to say uglyswan, I did laugh snort approvingly at 'You're probably prettier than us too.' But you dont want me onside, I am notoriously bad tempered and sweary. And that Rufus is a right one, too.

We should all #BeMoreDatun

Where is OP?

And

And

Poster after poster after poster

On thread after thread after thread

Have mentioned their trans friends or family, and that they wish trans people well

But it gets ignored

Well, that'll put you off posting again uglyswan...

ugly

Dont let it put you off

I cant stand it when people say

' am i the only one who....'

Of course you're not...no one is EVER the only one

ugly

As is frequently stated on twitter, #transrightsarehumanrights and I think that statement would get unanimous support on this discussion group.
However, giving additional privileges of one characteristic over another i.e gender identity over sex, is discrimination against people of that sex. So that's where the issue lies, and what we are arguing about.

No individual deserves to be harassed or abused or oppressed because of who they are - we all deserve to live our lives with our boundaries and choices being respected, but we can't all get our own way all of the time.

Anyway, I apologise to the patient women on here discussing this question in good faith for derailing the thread by being rude and unladylike and I've asked for my comment to be removed.

I very rarely post on this board, which has pages and pages of women patiently explaining why defending the rights of women and girls isn't transphobic and I make one (1!) sarcastic and unconstructive post and BOOM people like TheNavigator decide I "epitomise a certain tone on the Feminist board". One post, and I'm the representative of an entire group I don't even participate in regularly. It's magic!

Any male person who doesn't respect women's need for single sex spaces is a problem for women rights. It doesn't matter if they are very vocal about their use of women's spaces online, or quietly do it anyway without an announcement on twitter.

I have a friend - well, a former colleague to be more accurate as I've not spoken to them since I changed jobs - who has posted a lot on social media this last year about their FtM transition. I've watched all their YouTube videos on it and my heart breaks for them. I knew them back when they were still living as a woman and were open about being a lesbian. They seemed happy. Since watching their videos I've learnt that they received years of homophobic bullying for being lesbian, pressure from peers to dress in "girly" clothes, had a long term eating disorder, lost many of their childhood male friends once they began puberty because the boys grew stronger and taller and didn't want to play football with them anymore, and self harmed. They also belong to a religious community that strongly opposed them being lesbian. They describe being grateful to sites like Tumblr because "without it they would never have known they were really trans". They describe how the same people who bullied them for being lesbian now cheer and support for them as they transition to being a straight man, including their religious community. They describe the distress they feel when they don't "pass" and cry saying "I wasn't girl enough then and I'll never be man enough now". Their transition process involved 2 sessions with a specialist before being put on testosterone and after 6 months on testosterone they have now been approved for a double mastectomy. They hope that this will finally make them "man enough" to relieve their dysphoria.

I'm fucking gutted for them. Have I said anything to them? No. Would I ever say anything to them? No. They're 21 now, old enough to make their own choices. And the main reason I never post anything gender critical on facebook is that I don't want to cause them any distress. But I'm fucking gutted for them and I blame the TRAs for what's happening to them. I 100% support trans people, but part of that is a strong desire to protect them from what I see as a dangerous group of religious zealots. I suspect most of the GC mumsnet posters feel the same.

Agree totally Polarpig. Debbie Hayton and other transwomen have definitely warned that the TRA approach risks creating a backlash for all the nice people trying to live the best lives they can. Other campaigning groups have tried to create alliances to achieve reform. People who want women to die in a fat fire are not going to serve the interests of 'ordinary' trans people.

This is your periodic reminder that on FWR, the focus of topics is the rights and protections of women and girls, and the only reason trans anything is discussed here is when it intersects with those rights and protections negatively.

Just what I was about to say.

I'm women and girls supportive. I prioritise the welfare of women and girls and child protection. That OP can't even imagine such political and social priorities because it doesn't occur that there even is such a thing as failing to centre males, makes me very sad.

I don't centre males. I centre women and girls. Don't care which ideology is bad for women and girls - be it patriarchal religion, MRA activism, extreme genderism.

Not interested in what suits anyone born with a penis. Interested in what liberates women and girls and makes them realise centring penis in their thinking is the opposite of liberating.

What most other posters have said.

I also believe in biology and a Transwoman is not a woman. I realise this is the bit that will get backs up. And I have recently stopped apologising for that.

Yeah, I'm not doing this 'but I'm actually really nice, honest! Not like those other mean feminists.' dance.

I'm woman supportive (the old cunty kind.) Why don't TRAs try that for a change?

This is your periodic reminder that on FWR, the focus of topics is the rights and protections of women and girls, and the only reason trans anything is discussed here is when it intersects with those rights and protections negatively.

If a law about trans people provides a wedge by which predatory men may access female victims, it is relevant to discuss it here. If the requirement to 'live as a woman' feeds into all sorts of harmful stereotypes about women's lives, it is relevant to discuss it here.

The fact that there are people who believe themselves to be trans is not something any of us deny, and all of us have been quite happy in the past to acknowledge that trans anyone should be free from unfair discrimination such as losing their job or not getting housing because they are trans. But those issues are not feminist issues, and they don't find a home here because Feminism is not about solving all the issues of everyone ever.

This board centres women and girls, and that is an exclusive designation of those who were born into it. There are many, many places where the desires of the male born are focused upon. This isnt one of them.

As we have a much loved and valued transwoman in our close circle the tone of many of the posts here makes me feel uncomfortable, hence I avoid it.

That the problem. It is sometimes difficult to say no to a friend and prioritize women and girls that you don't know. But that's why feminism exists to prioritize women and girls, sometime making others feel not centered.

As demonstrated by another poster instantly jumping in to defend it

I didn't defend it. I just pointed out it was just sarcasm. You know, women are allowed to be sarcastic if they want.

so, one post defended by one poster, on one thread. Nope, not getting that that's indicative of anything.

You might as well not be on MN at all if you're going to be bothered by sarcastic posts.