Good things that happen when you wear an "Adult Human Female" hoodie

I'm sure we all think our own personal opinions are the correct ones.

I don't believe the hoody is making a difference. You either already know what it means and it's simply a way of saying you're in the GC club or it's a non thing. That's not informing anyone of anything.

Of course it makes a difference!

This is a subject which is framed by fear. Fear of speaking the truth or being openly gender critical.

Whilst it is about saying you are 'in the club' as you phrase it, it's more than that.

It smashing the taboo of speaking the truth.

I've been on MN a long time. When I first started I started to talk about fear of birth over ten years ago, no one did. No one.

Now people do.

It's about demonstrating that you are not alone and having strength in numbers. It's a psychological thing which gives back power.

It's a rejection of this monolithic 'liberal identity' bullshit where everyone must say the right things and walk on eggshells.

And that's really what those who practice darvo are annoyed by.

The fracturing of their hold on others.

This is an ideology which is offensive to women, to lesbians and to non-whites on a regular basis and half the time no one bars an eyelid at how offensive it is cos they are all too busy nodding along!

Fuck that!

For me it's a positive statement and a rallying cry. I am not trying to offend anyone and I'll always have a constructive discussion but I'm thinking about women and girls, not the feelings of TW.

It really does make sense.

So what you're saying, Fridasrage, is that this is a classic negotiating ploy.

No, what i'm saying is that there can't be progress made if each side is going to refuse to engage or treat each other with respect.

I don't think the perception that this slogan (or standing up for women's rights in general) is transphobic is the fault of women.

Neither do I, I think it's primarily the fault of a small minority of hard line gender critical feminists who have used it in an unhelpfully inflammatory context.

Without discussing my personal feelings on the subject, because i'm more interested in the actual debate getting done, I genuinely believe that to the extent that parts of the debate are zero-sum, gender critical feminists are going to lose (which is already starting to happen). There's nastiness and a lack of willing to compromise on both sides, but as trans people traditionally have had fewer rights and are seen as more vulnerable, it plays worse for GCFs. I think that engaging compassionately and being respectful is a basic requirement for any debate, but it isn't just a duty to make other people feel better. It's likely to lead to more success for GCFs in terms of negotiating women only spaces etc.

I think I find the adult human female thing a bit confusing because I believe the best way to win protection for female women is to separate out sex and gender. Woman is a word attached to gender and female to sex. Why not separate them out rather than binding them together? Compromise at the idea that there can be male and female women but that sex matters

The idea that woman "is a word attached to gender & female to sex" is postmodernism + Queer theory.

It may be an idea that is widely believed/accepted amongst specific groups.

Words matter though & the definition of woman is relevent to everyone in society. It is also key in International Human Rights law specific to sex.

I love mine - comfortable, awesome pocket. Have not had any obvious responses although I live in a very unwoke area so probably people are thinking yeah, and...?

It's my favourite piece of clothing and I don't wear it to be goady. I wear it because it took me two weeks to get up the courage to wear it outside the house. I wear it because I was genuinely scared to. And then when I did, nothing happened apart from I was outside and warm.

For me it's a motivator and a reminder to be brave, because being scared to wear a fucking jumper with a dictionary definition means things have got bad.

For me it's a positive statement and a rallying cry. I am not trying to offend anyone and I'll always have a constructive discussion but I'm thinking about women and girls, not the feelings of TW.

(And I really wanted to say 'if that makes sense' afterwards but fuck female socialisation I'm not going to )

Thanks for posting that video, Spartacus.

If it weren't for some of these women, this debate wouldn't even be happening and GRA self ID would be a fait accompli.

I'm going to say this again, because I don't think some of the above mentioned naive people here are fully aware of it.

Yes they think the revolution is going to come in the form of a hoody.

No one thinks that. Don't be disingenuous.

I don't believe the hoody is making a difference.

It's not just wearing a hoody that's making a difference. It's the people who are making the effort to make this political statement and raising awareness. It's not just about T shirts. If it weren't for some of these women, this debate wouldn't even be happening and GRA self ID would be a fait accompli.

We really need to have these debates openly and we need them now.
We do indeed. What happens whenever women try and hold debates?

This is being hampered by the fact that the debate is so polarised and so vitriolic.
I think it's highly disingenuous - to quote your own word back at you - to imply that wearing a dictionary definition of 'woman' is in some way equivalent to masked people blocking stairways to try and stop women getting into a meeting.

There needs to be some degree of compromise
We had a compromise. It was called the Gender Recognition Act of 2004.

There are some extremely naive people on this thread

Yes they think the revolution is going to come in the form of a hoody.

And yes posters were still using him/her aftw9r the poster said she was a woman. Hell of a typo.

I believe the best way to win protection for female women is to separate out sex and gender.

Gender is just a made up set of stereotypes though - ones primarily designed to produce social control. It's a nonsense.

Gender identity in this sense is also a nonsense because its the presentation of social control. That's not to say, don't appear in any way you like, it's just to say that you should not be bound by the social control that gender produces.

Why do women need to separate out out nonsense and not just 'be'?

I'm sorry but I don't get what 'separating out' even means apart from being bluntly gender critical and pointing out precisely what nonsense gender identity is!

Most people are still not really aware of the issues

How will they be made aware from the tshirt?

The fact that displaying a simple factual definition causes so much debate shows us exactly how powerful the message

On a gendet critical forum it causes a debate. Elsewhere it's the definition of a penguin. Not interesting. There's no context.

Sneering at people who are actually making a difference doesn't cover you in a glory.

I don't believe the hoody is making a difference. You either already know what it means and it's simply a way of saying you're in the GC club or it's a non thing. That's not informing anyone of anything.

Sneering at people for disagreeing isnt covering you in glory.

A shirt that explained the equality act might be useful but I admit wouldn't be as snappy. The stickers are a good idea because they give some info.

Also compare the offensiveness of wearing a t shirt with a dictionary definition on it (which has been termed as a 'hate crime') against a very public TW spokesperson for the TRA movement stating publicly that women have no right to choose a penis exclusionary sexual orientation and that non trans people (especially women) should in effect be murdered in the most vile and painful of ways. This has been decided to be perfectly acceptable and understandable.

Compare and contrast. Women pointing out facts (at risk of punishment, with police involvement). Male born people threatening to kill them. (Sympathy and tolerance and people saying oh it's just an idiom).

Spot where the power is. Spot which group is oppressed. And which group wants the other group to hand over rights and protections from them. Are you really all right with that?

One person made a throwaway comment about her username that could have even been a typo.

Twa not w but the hoody is silly, because everyone knows that. If they do not agree they are hardly likely to change their mind becau9sr of your jumper.

If that were true, I'd agree; but there are two reasons the slogan works:

1. Most people are still not really aware of the issues.
2. The political class are a long way from everyone else on this. More than awareness, we need to raise the importance of the issue.