Good things that happen when you wear an "Adult Human Female" hoodie

for all the adult human females on this thread being clear that our identity is not up for appropriation. And on mother's day as well.

I love my AHF T-shirt and wear it all the time. It's a really good fit and washes well #practical.

Don't give a damn if anyone is offended. There's plenty of t-shirts slogans in the world that I'd find offensive .

I want to get one of the tops as soon as I’ve got some spare cash. (Surely that day will come?)

Interesting though - someone said she hoped, when wearing hers, others would ask her why she felt the need to state the bleeding obvious. If somone asked you that, what would you say? Just looking for tips.

I see there’s been some dispute about the tops being offensive. The truth does tend to offend people, when it clashes with mystical or supernatural beliefs. That’s no reason to conceal it. In fact, quite the opposite, particularly when a supernatural belief is becoming oppressively, aggressively censorious and socially dominant: when it threatens free speech and undermines honesty and knowledge in politics and science. That’s exactly when the truth needs to be defended and vigorously promoted, regardless of offence.

If you suppress hoodies for stating truths, by applying social pressure, on the grounds that some find the truth offensive, burning books isn’t far behind. And once you start burning books ....

DpWm your post reminds me of this meme. If we changed all legislation to "adult human female only spaces" it would only be a matter of time before men started fighting to "identify" into that as well.

SocFem19
I am a pragmatist
Accept there are male women and female women
I used to think that.

The problem is, the word woman has so much meaning. It exists in hundreds of ways already eg

"Women only shortlists"
"Women's gym"
"Women's prison"
Etc etc
Feminists actually had to fight for all of these things.

So what this ideological position proposes is that we (feminists who believe in women only spaces) should all just fight to change the wording of everything for women to

"Adult human female only loos"
"Adult human female only sports team"
"Adult human female only short lists'
When we Already had to fight for these things in the first place and now we're expected every single institution and organisation to change their words rather than simply follow the line of the law which allows "Women only" to mean exactly that, no male bodies.

Not only that if we are supposed to accept that "Woman" means either a male woman or female woman what precisely do you name an "Adult human female" ? What would you call that?

In your post modern queer-theory ideology, we would be the only animal on the planet where the male of the species doesn't have a name and the female of the species does not have a name.
In the way a female rabbit is a doe, a male rabbit is a duck, a female cat a queen, a male cat a tom, a female dog a bitch a male a sire etc etc etc.

We'd have to come up with a whole new name for adult human female in order to appease a tiny minority of demanding males who talk shite. It's not going to happen. We all know what a woman is and it doesn't have a penis.

Why would these be popular with the trans community?

What a delightful advertisement for a most practical garment...
Not only is there room for a bottle of gin in the capacious pocket, but there's also space at the top of the printing to practice my embroidery skills. What larks I shall have!

Perhaps "A transwoman is an..." or "Can you tell she's an..." Also, I've discovered that the cheaper knock-off versions are very popular with sections of the trans community.

I shook the hand of somebody wearing one recently. DS told her I have the same top at home.

Lots of people have given me a thumbs up for wearing mine. I wear it whilst running or gardening at the allotments. Even wear it at work on a dress down day.

Jellybaby you're so right about the negotiating.

It's why the puuuullll is getting so much aggression from the TRAs, but we can't find or offer a compromise on this one. Once you dilute a right, it's only a privilege. And once that happens, it's removable.

Jeez louise, this thread has really taken off. I believe I was the first person to call guitargeek a man. I did that not because she disagreed but because I have never known a female guitar geek. My bad.

Anyway, I have been contemplating getting an Adult Human Female Tshirt. I'm a little afraid because I live in Wokeachusetts and I have no idea of the reaction I'd get. You've inspired me OP! I'm going to take the first step and order one today.

@notajellybaby - 100% agree with you. And @Erishkegal and all the other wonderful posters who have put a lot more thought into their posts.

We need to keep fighting and I for one am not going to compromise on this.

I think (to skip back a bit to an earlier point) the problem with the "we should all just try and find a compromise" approach is that what we are really saying here is "women, compromise yourself to appease men". Like in the Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie book "we should all be feminists" she talks about couples saying "I did it for peace in my marriage". She points out that men saying this use it to mean reducing (but not stopping) a behaviour they shouldn't have been doing in the first place (like going out ever night) whilst women say it to mean accepting treatment by men that they should never have been subjected to in the first place (like having sex more than they want to). Women "compromising" here is going to mean us giving up rights that should never have been challenged, and men accepting fewer rights than they asked for, but which is still more than they were ever entitled to. And make no mistake, it won't stop there. Once their foot is in the door they will come for the rest of our rights.

One reason that I think women struggle in negotiations is that we often start from a position of compromise, whilst men start just with what they want. I see this with my own partner, that I'll think about what I want and what he wants and offer a solution that is 50% of the way. He'll then counter with a position that is 100% his own interests. His will then present a position half way between our starting points as if that means 50%, whilst in reality that means 75% in his favour. I think that's a real danger here. For us to reach a 50/50 compromise, women need to start from a more extreme position.

I’m going to Brighton for a few days next month. This thread has reinforced my determination to wear my AFH hoodie and T-shirt while I’m there.

I had a rare lie in today and missed all the fun! Just spent the last hour or so catching up and was so impressed with the patience and intelligent arguing of the gc women on this thread. Erishkigal GabrielleNelson and too many more to have to go back and check spelling for mention ❤️

There are real discussions needed regarding balancing trans rights with the rights of women, for example, to women-only spaces. We really need to have these debates openly and we need them now.

Hello Geek and Rage welcome to Mumsnet, where real discussions on these and many more feminist issues are happening all day, everyday! We don't always agree with each other but, with a skilful balance of respect and passion, we allow each others voices to be heard and respond with information and intelligent critique that furthers the debate. After reading the thread so far, I'm not convinced that that was what you were after though?

Anyway, getting back to the OP, I wear my t-shirt and tote with the intention of supporting Women. Advertising is a multi million £ industry because it's well proved that displaying an image or statement, even for a fraction of a second, has an effect on the viewer. It follows that wearing clothing with slogans is a fantastic and effective way of getting a desired message across to the public.

Almost everyday that I wear my t-shirt, somebody will ask me what it means and why I'm wearing it. It's a brilliant conversation starter and EVERY single person that has asked me has not realised what is going on with the word Women and the disastrous consequences to women and girls that come from it's misappropriation.

I've had one man tell me that my Man Friday t-shirt was 'nasty' (when I was serving him in the shop I work in, so I couldn't question his response - he still bought his organic bananas!), but other than that every response has been positive and even appreciative for making the effort to spread awareness of what's happening to our rights.

Because of this thread, I'm now going to buy a hoodie!

The t-shirts and hoodies are a symbol that shows us we are not alone. And it gives strength to those who see them. That should not be underestimated.
Yes. Unfortunately I don't feel safe wearing one myself as I live and work in a small world and I don't trust my employer. But it would cheer me up tremendously to see one.

And I think perhaps this is the thing: were fighting on different fronts. I respect anybody who is holding a line here.

Yes me too. Apologies, my response to you was a tad harsh.

The t-shirts and hoodies are a symbol that shows us we are not alone. And it gives strength to those who see them. That should not be underestimated.

I agree with this. If somebody was wearing one, I'd feel all kinds of relief, even if I couldn't wear one myself.

Gender is ideology. You're welcome to it, but don't try to force it on me.

I am well well aware of this. It is a religion I do not subscribe to. I wouldn't force it on anybody, ever, I want it gone.

But I am a pragmatist. Gender has taken hold. We've always has sex stereotyping and it's getting worse. If there was a way of ensuring that female spaces stayed female-only in some sort of work around that keeps everyone sweet then I would take it. Maybe as a service user who is afraid of her absuers I feel too desperate about this. I want this campaign to win too much. I am an insider to both the queer and radfem communities so I'm seeing and hearing both sides regularly and i can see what is more likely to convince people on the inside of the queer community that female space is important. But maybe they aren't who you're trying to reach. And I think perhaps this is the thing: were fighting on different fronts. I respect anybody who is holding a line here.

I concede the point made by someone else that because the word woman is tied to so much, historically and in policy and law, it would be too huge a concession. I understand that and I think this is the strongest argument for keeping it tied to female.

Some of us are still having to operate within and even tentatively talk to the queer community which we are inextricably surrounded by and our conversations within that might have to concede something to be understood at all. I am glad for those who keep pointing out that these two words (woman and female) are bound together at ever level of policy so an easy fix isn't possible. It's something I lose grip of. I am holding so many arguments at once in my mind that it becomes very difficult not to lose grip of some of them. Thank you.

I think that whether you believe in gender or you are a gender "atheist" (agenderist?) both these positions are part of a belief system. Sex isn't. This is where I see myself winning people over and securing the female-only space I very much rely on.

As I said, though, I admire the campaign from a distance, it is getting people talking and somebody needs to take that hard line.

It can't be me, and it can't be lots of woman who are still stuck in the endless gaslighting of their queer friends and family. We have to stick to a line which is further back. Only made possible by those women who are able to stride forward without significant risk to themselves or who have decided it is a sacrifice they are willing to make (kudos).

Good luck to everyone who is fighting this in whatever ways.

I think netmums might be a better fit..

What the flip is netmums?

Part of this site?

Because the 'rights' they are talking about is the right to enter female spaces unfettered. Due to some magic words.

What rights have trans people “traditionally” not had? Nobody seems able to give actual concrete examples, why is this?

"but as trans people traditionally have had fewer rights and are seen as more vulnerable, it plays worse for GCFs"

I really cannot believe any woman in the world could believe this. Seriously, these are men who grew up with all of the advantages of being a man, when women were aborted in the womb or strangled at birth, but they are the most oppressed ever? Are you saying that a man who has lived his life, fathered children, had a male privilege successful career, and then decides to transition, was part of the most oppressed people ever?????

Tell that to women, tell than to a group of black men, tell that to a group of black women, tell that to a group of slaves....

I could go on but really your words speak for themselves.

SisterWendyBuckett

💐