EHRC abandon claim against NHS - failing to provide fertility treatments to trans

IUsed2BanOptimist I read your username the wrong way at first!

Yes. Again, one of the issues to keep on top of is language. The definition of "surrogate" is "substitute", and a woman gestating a fetus is not a substitute. She is the real thing. It is her blood and bones that are building that baby. (Calcium depletion is the reason the NHS gives free dentistry during pregnancy.) She is the one risking short-term acute problems (gestational diabetes) and life-long chronic ones (prolapse).

No one has a right to a baby, because no one has a right to another human being. You have the right to try to have a baby, which requires, at a minimum, another adult human being of the opposite sex, and in addition a good dose of luck.

Did they ever explain where all these cis wombs were going to come from after ftms voluntarily had theirs removed and mtfs never had one to start with

My tin foil hat theory is that FtMs are deliberately being encouraged to have theirs removed so that MtFs have ready supply to experiment with/on.....

The watchdog had argued that those seeking treatment for gender dysphoria should be treated in the same way as those with other conditions - such as cancer - which threaten fertilit

Why would they be treated as though they had cancer which is a life threatening illness? Dh had a vasectomy. It was made very clear that if the doctor was going to make him voluntarily infertile that the NHS would not be reversing it if he changed his mind later. He had healthy normally functioning reproductive capabilities that he chose to alter. That's who trans people need to be compared to, not cancer patients. How offensive.

Did they ever explain where all these cis wombs were going to come from after ftms voluntarily had theirs removed and mtfs never had one to start with...

The rights we should be concerned about are the rights of all women to bodily autonomy and the rights of babies. Babies have the right to stay with their mother (whenever possible).

^ This

I’m also very uncomfortable with the push towards commercial surrogacy with the ‘right’ to a baby and the ‘right’ to use a surrogate.

The rights we should be concerned about are the rights of all women to bodily autonomy and the rights of babies. Babies have the right to stay with their mother (whenever possible). There is no right to have a baby.

Who is the ferret and vole alike couple who are very keen to have a baby via surrogate?

The EHRC are looking to the NHS to prioritise transgender people. The NHS should not prioritise any one group, we should all be treated equally based on need.

See page 8 in particular - assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/721367/GEO-LGBT-Action-Plan.pdf

Government appoints first National Adviser for LGBT Health - www.gov.uk/government/news/government-appoints-first-national-adviser-for-lgbt-health?fbclid=IwAR2-hvFH-g_zJk__uWopZJu02NPl_fS25p_f3yIb4B3ncFUXJh00rkpQpiU

I'm with you MsTiggywinkle

There's a popular YouTube FtM teen that I keep an eye on by way of trying to keep up. One of the clips posted documents egg collection and storing (privately funded I think). Along with a cheery commentary is a throw away "Thanks future surrogate".

My feeling is the general public have been softened up with heartwarming stories of infertile couples who have had babies via surrogate, closely followed by more heartwarming stories of popular gay couples who have had babies by surrogate. If I ever raise the topic (which is a furious hornet buzzing in my bonnet) I am always amazed at the people who casually condone it as a perfectly valid way to obtain a baby without a thought about the ethics etc either with respect to the woman (uterus for hire person) or the baby (product for sale person).

Quite a few European countries ban surrogacy although I believe there is a growing trend for parents to bring back a baby obtained abroad and present a fait accompli to the courts. Even I can't deny that the best interests of the child (in most cases I would expect) is to remain with the (hopefully loving) parents who commissioned them. So there is a reluctance to do anything more than rubber stamp the new citizen or whatever legalities are required.

I am keeping a close eye on the surrogacy consultation paper that is due anytime soon.

www.lawcom.gov.uk/project/surrogacy/

Personally I would like all forms of surrogacy banned in this country in keeping with other more enlightened European countries but there is a public appetite for the availability of surrogacy and I am expecting the consultation recommendations to facilitate the exact opposite.

Good

Can’t read the whole article but it’s good news

Is it? I hoped it was, but I’m so bloody cynical these days I wasn’t sure.

First I am sure it hardly needs pointing out that NHS fertility services are patchy and varied according to a postcode lottery. For actual women. So I wonder if part of this backing down is a recognition of what it would mean to the NHS if a ruling meant that trans people had an entitlement sealed by the law over and above that which was provided to women.

Then there is the whole business of surrogacy,which anyone who is familiar with me will know I am implacably opposed to irrespective of sexuality, best friends, sisters whatever.

I am glad this has been dropped but I'm not sure that it hasn't been a pragmatic decision not to scare the horses and raise awareness with the wider public. I remain suspicious.

This talk of equal rights to form a family is one to keep an eye on. The language of rights leads to an assumption of entitlement, and in the context of reproduction, that leads gay men to think that they are entitled to hire a gestational carrier - a uterus-haver - a woman. Perhaps my phrase "gay men" is old-fashioned: I should say, a potential family of one or more adults, none of whom has a uterus. Young gay men are growing up now, if they're in a supportive family environment, thinking they are equal (great) and one day will find love and get married (great, if that's your thing) and that they just like everyone else in society (not true). They will have the expectation that the NHS will provide them with the fertility services (read: woman) they need. Anyone who cares about how poor women make unhappy choices under societal constraints needs to keep this on their radar.

Can’t read the whole article but it’s good news.

via @telegraph www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/03/30/legal-case-against-nhs-failing-provide-fertility-treatments/

Would love to read this in full if anyone has a share token. I saw a BBC online film of demands from a MTF and a Non Binary person a while ago and the language of entitlement was astonishing.