Gender critical board?

Ohhhhh I see what you mean. That people who object to transgenderism on the basis of transgressing traditional gender stereotypes, or from a place of homophobia, get described as gender critical, when they’re not, they believe in gender (and uphold sexism and misogyny) as much as TRAs do just with a different set of rules.

I don’t necessarily think it’s come to mean ‘transgender critical’ but I do think that is what seem to regard it as or infer it to be. That someone who is gender critical must be ‘anti-trans’.

Saying that gender critical = transphobic would be the same logic as atheist = islamophobic which is clearly a bonkers and incorrect leap to make.

Or just anti-stereotype?

I'd rather we just stop using the phrase 'gender critical' tbh.
+1 to this - Julia Long made this point quite eloquently when she was speaking at the Haringay Resister’s meeting. We aren’t ‘racism critical’,
we aren’t ‘homophobia critical’ or ‘misogyny critical’, so wtf are we ‘gender critical’?

It’s the term that’s stuck now, and to my mind it’s symtomatic of female socialisation to appease and not appear to be rude or disruptive - otherwise we’d be anti-gender, gender abolitionists or other such stronger, clearer term.

Personally I like ‘gender atheist’ for myself. I don’t believe in gender, quite simply.

Op you probably aren't going to be able to gauge from this board whether there is a desire for it because the people here obviously aren't put off by the word feminist (they are here).
I think you might be using the word gender critical in a different way to others here? To me all feminism is or should be critical of gender, and to be critical of gender makes you a feminist. But like others have said, others critical of the current trans rights political movement ( and the ideas underpinning it) are not necessarily critical of gender. But I do get where you are coming from. There obviously is an audience otherwise kiwifarms and the times comments wouldn't be full of non feminists pointing out the emperor's lack of attire.

I do wish FWR was still called 'feminism and women's rights'

Yes perhaps we should ask @mnhq to put it back since the 'feminism chat' moniker is a nothing but a scar from a time when antifeminist trolls were organising to silence and control women/mothers, which ended up with the CEO getting swatted.

Apologies for not RTFT, but if you want to start a thread which doesn't to your mind fit in feminism, then just pick wherever else seems appropriate. If it's about something recently in the media, there's 'In the news'. If it's related to schools, one of the Education boards. Etc etc.

However, I do wish FWR was still called 'feminism and women's rights', I never did understand that change.

I feel the same as you @HawkeyeInConfusion

Feminist is just a label.

It means different things to different people. I don't call myself a feminist, because I don't like labels, but I am not put off by the term.

I come on here to discuss issues and am interested in what others have to say, feminists or not.

This board gives us critical mass and something to coalesce around. It is not full of pontifications and philosophical esoteric BS that I thought it would be full of, despite my initial perceptions.

OP others might already see you as a feminist, because of the issues you are interested in, whether you agree with the label or not.

Personally , I think it's a bit precious to 'not want to associate' with 'feminist' because of some negative connotations, rightly or wrongly.

I have been GNC and gender critical virtually all my life (starting with preferring toy cars to dolls at 3 or 4 years old). But I had never considered myself to be a feminist.

I still don't feel worthy of the title feminist as I know so little of the history, the language or the theory.

But I'm still happy to read and post in FWR. Because I'm damn sure I want to protect the rights of women and children.

I only discovered the gender critical stuff by idly wondering where feminism was up to. I'd never have discovered it if hidden away as a gender critical forum. It has been useful and enlightening to me to read these discussions.

What is gender criticism if it isn't feminist? Does it still distinguish between sex and gender? What does 'not feminist' mean? Supporting patriarchy?

Indeed.

Ive never heard someone say it IRL but if I did everything they say after that point will be treated with the scepticism it deserves.

It's synonymous with "am not" more often than not, meandmetoo

I really wish "identify as" as a pre curser to everything would just fuck off.

Cwenthryth agree very much.

Trouble I've found this week too is that posters of these particular persuasion will jump on any thread with a whiff of the F word which is posted anywhere but FWR with cries of "Take your man hating poison to FWR you witches, leave Chat/AIBU out of it!"

Struggling to imagine how it works to be gender critical and yet not feminist.
If gender basically means society's roles that are assigned to each sex, then gender critical means to criticise the practice of assigning roles to each sex.
As far as I can tell it's pretty impossible to be gender critical and not feminist.

TRAs are in favour of roles being assigned and linked to each sex. They just think to change roles is to change sex.
Sexists are in favour of roles being assigned to each sex. They know people can't change sex but they also think noone should be allowed to change roles.
They are opposed to trans ideology only because they oppose transgression of sex roles. They're not critical of gender nor are they feminists.

If you're opposed to sex based roles entirely, you're both gender critical, and feminist, as I see it.

It reminds me of the forced splitting back in the day. Funfems and antifeminists lobbied for FWR to be split into 2 - the 'radical feminist board' and the 'feminism chat' we are on today.

Because the people calling for the radical feminist board weren't the radical feminists, but those who wanted to oust them for the very board they original pushed HQ for (FWR), the RF board was tumbleweed.

This gender critical stuff rose up on the feminist board for a reason. What fucking cheek for latecomers to try to take ownership of all the discourse and resources created by the feminists here. OP you are a CF.

Hey OP, while I think I understand where you're coming from I agree with posters above that it would dilute and fragment FWR threads. The solidarity and discourse I have thankfully exposed myself to through MN FWR threads is invaluable to me - I think fragmenting or breaking off conversations/resources to another GC area could somewhat derail FWR focus.

Much like you I greatly enjoy engaging in conversation with people that carry different views than I, and from what I've seen many MN FWR participants feel the same. However, as our sex-based rights are eroding before our eyes the FWR is a place (mostly) of solidarity and support - and anyone can participate. I find that FWR is quite inclusive and seemingly allows an open forum for differing views (barring abuse of course).

I hope you have a fantastic day!

I think blaming non compliant women is the go-to for all the ills of the world isn;t it?

Or just women full stop, even the ones who try...

There are GC threads on main boards and they get mainly agree with a handful of this is transphobic

I think people do get tired of topics and while it's important, so are other things. I do feel a bit sad sometimes that feminism is pretty much just GC stuff when I joined it was such a range and this exploded. I do start threads about other feminism topics from time to time but they don't get much traction.

So based on that I think the feminism board is the GC board, as not much else is talked about, and from conversations and other topics not gettign traction it's fair to say that a lot of posters are not so interested in the other stuff.

So, it's done really.

GC itself is a feminist term. Many people who object to trans philosophy are not critical of gender they love it. feminists are GC by definiiton and also very very often GNC which is why I think the trans thing is light blue touchpaper and stand well back. We are the people who have been saying for years, gender is oppression. Get rid of the boxes. So, of course people who want to enforce the boxes even harder get our backs up. It goes against everything we have been figting for and makes us fear for the girls who are like we once were.

It would probably be a positive step to start more GC threads on other boards

This I do agree with.

I think that there is a perception among some sectors (my FIL for example) that anything, 'PC' or slightly SJW sounding is blamed on 'the feminists' - he doesn't know anything about feminism, hasn't actually read who's asking for what in whatever he's blaming on 'the feminists', he just assumes if someone's saying something he doesn't like, then it's 'the feminists' saying it.

I don't think a GC board will help there. They would just lump everything together, whether it is or not.