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Original poster

how to understand and respond to "you're denying my existence" (narcissistic injury)

34 replies

MsTiggywinkletoyou · 29/03/2019 01:36

I'm starting this new thread to surface some valuable insights hidden away elsewhere.

stealthsquirrelnutkin said People's feelings about themselves and their 'identity' has never been in question. I'm really not sure if this talk of having one's "existence denied" is down to wilful ignorance, or just plain stupidity. This line of thought does not pass the most simple tests of reason or rationality.

I read this recently on GenderCritical Reddit.

"I think when they say "you are invalidating my existence" they really mean it. The woman they "create", and are in love with, only exists through them putting certain types of clothing (makeup, affectations) on and presenting "her" to the world. If you see through "her" to him, "she" doesn't exist."

Which would explain how differentiating between male bodied people with a feminine gender identity and biological women determined to preserve their sex based safe spaces can feel like a "hateful" attack by someone "threatening your very existence".

Ereshkigal responded It's experienced as a "narcissistic injury"
www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-legacy-distorted-love/201608/the-destructive-force-narcissistic-injury

And I was minded of something odd in the otherwise thoughtful blog of a Quaker transwoman Clare Flourish. It is my right to specify how I should be imagined, or how I should not be imagined. I am not a man. I am vulnerable, and suggestions that I am a man can cut to my heart.
It seems to me the exact opposite, that the one thing nobody can control is how others imagine (i.e. think of) them. You can police people's speech (if politeness doesn't get you the validation you crave) but the one thing you cannot police is their thoughts and imaginings. clareflourish.wordpress.com/2018/11/30/are-quakers-transphobic/

So we have a psychological term for a psychic hurt. Is this "narcissistic injury" a technical phrase for what is elsewhere known as the "literal violence" of misgendering?

Can any of these insights lead to better conversations?

OP posts:
JessicaWakefieldSVH · 29/03/2019 07:57

The only way to respond to you're denying my existence is to say no, you're denying mine.

That’s a good one!

NappyDisco · 29/03/2019 07:52

OVAgroundWOMBlingfree

I quite love that story Grin

LumpySpacedPrincess · 29/03/2019 07:19

I'm not denying anyone's existence, just choosing not to share their religion.

OVAgroundWOMBlingfree · 29/03/2019 06:35

When I was a teenager I used to “identify as” a Mod but being so young I could only afford one Fred Perry shirt and my mother’s turn around on the washing front wasn’t up to scratch. So every time I met someone and I wasn’t wearing my Mod uniform I’d say “I’m a mod, I don’t usually dress like this”. If they had used their imagination to perceive my outfit as the Topshop plain white t-shirt and jeans I was wearing, rather than the FP polo shirt and mini skirt I required them to conjure up, I would have been very distressed.

ChattyLion · 29/03/2019 06:33

Agreed. With the insistent space invaders narcissism is very much central to their deal.

Mamello · 29/03/2019 06:24

I think the problem is that people feel they can control their identity. But identity is a negotiated thing. It's how we see ourselves and also how others see us. If we assume that everyone else sees us as we see ourselves then we will be eternally disappointed. We have to negotiate and come to some sort of common understanding of how we are seen. That, to me, is why feminism is so important. It is about renenegotiating our identities with an often hostile other. But biology will always be a major part in that negotiation.

zanahoria · 29/03/2019 06:13

transwomen exist

not denying that fact

transwomen are women

definitely denying that ideology

AnyOldPrion · 29/03/2019 05:58

I don’t believe you can reason with such a person. The idea that we must bend our minds to their will is non-negotiable.

The only two approaches I know are:

  1. If you are sure you are physically safe, keep pointing out every inconsistency. Stay factual. Point out nobody is denying their existence, but that it’s impossible for anyone to change sex. Continue to argue in a factual way. Men are demanding women’s rights are extended to them.

They will twist your words “are you saying we should check everyone’s genitals?” Point out the fact they are twisting your words and repeat your question or statement if they haven’t come up with a valid response to your point.

  1. If you cannot guarantee your safety (physically or mentally) walk away from the discussion.

You can’t win the narcissist over. But you may find you have clarified in your own mind how you feel. And you may bring realisation to anyone reading or watching that you are the one with the rational and reasonable position.

NappyDisco · 29/03/2019 03:45

The only way to respond to you're denying my existence is to say no, you're denying mine.

If feelings make the woman then most of us aren't women. It's very easy to understand if they aren't tantrumming