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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

Lingerie and pretty things

104 replies

TheFrontHoleIsConnectedToThe · 28/03/2019 08:42

I don't like these things. I think they're silly and uncomfortable and frequently not practical. However, since around the age of 19/20 I will wear them. Particularly if it means I will ger laid.

So I am wearing these things because men like the look of them. I started dressing more traditionally feminine around that age because looking like a scruffy teenage boy wasn't getting me any.

I like men dressed in typically masculine clothing but I actually think I look nice dressed that way as well. And I am drawn to it more because I feel I can wear it less now.

Women didn't invent stupid women's clothing. We were told to wear it by men who invented stupid womens clothing.

If we are going to decide onw sex is naturally more fluffy and into lacy pink shite... why do we assume it's women and not the men women are trying to look nice for.

*disclaimer not everything a woman wears is to attract a man. BUT attracting a mate is a thing most human will try and do..

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deydododatdodontdeydo · 28/03/2019 12:35

Yeah but why does it equal that in the first place?

Presumably stemmed from showing a bit of ankle, to mini skirts, etc. i.e. showing a bit of your body progressed to drawing attention to it.
I dunno, quite interesting though.

deydododatdodontdeydo · 28/03/2019 12:34

But there are no equivalent "sex clothes" for men. That don't look ridiculous

I corrected my post
Although what is and isn't ridiculous is surely down to association and conditioning, so maybe we could find those images sexy with enough effort.

MoltenLasagne · 28/03/2019 12:14

Perhaps some men may view it as a sign that we've 'made an effort' and maybe they appreciate the thought, if not the actual execution.

I agree that there's certainly an aspect of that on an individual level but I think it's also deeper than that, particularly when we consider that fashion is still overwhelmingly dominated by men.

It reminds of the quote from John Berger about the male gaze in art which he criticises male Renaissance artists for in particular. "You painted a naked woman because you enjoyed looking at her, put a mirror in her hand and you called the painting “Vanity,” thus morally condemning the woman whose nakedness you had depicted for you own pleasure."

Original poster

TheFrontHoleIsConnectedToThe · 28/03/2019 11:57

*although knowing the internet I'm sure that's a specific genre on youporn anyway.

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Original poster

TheFrontHoleIsConnectedToThe · 28/03/2019 11:57

But, isn't it just that frilly lingerie = sex?

Yeah but why does it equal that in the first place? Sex is far more likely to come from the person next to you wearing an old Star Wars shirt and some holey pants with the waistband falling out.

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Original poster

TheFrontHoleIsConnectedToThe · 28/03/2019 11:54

Don't tell me this does nothing for you.

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LaurieFairyCake · 28/03/2019 11:49

I make dh wear this if he wants it

Gets me going

deydododatdodontdeydo · 28/03/2019 11:44

Most of my clothes come from Go Outdoors, and the women's and men's clothes are identical except for size.
But, isn't it just that frilly lingerie = sex?
And that's why men are interested?
But there are no equivalent "sex clothes" for men.

Floisme · 28/03/2019 11:43

Far be it for me to speak on behalf of men but I'm not sure that - as a group - they find it attractive. They have very different tastes, just as we do. But I think perhaps some men may view it as a sign that we've 'made an effort' and maybe they appreciate the thought, if not the actual execution.

moofolk · 28/03/2019 11:38

I think it's observably true that a massive proportion of men will take any opportunity to dress up.

The feminine look is a costume and brings with it infantilising mannerisms which for some fucking weird reason, men find attractive. It's a symbol of power and oppression.

Floisme · 28/03/2019 11:37

I see your beefeaters and I raise you The Pope.

Original poster

TheFrontHoleIsConnectedToThe · 28/03/2019 11:31

If men don't like dressing up, how do we explain the absurd outfits worn by the military, the clergy and the judiciary?

I don't understand. What's unusual about these outfits?

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Floisme · 28/03/2019 11:18

'Let me read my catalogue on vinyl flooring.'
Happy days.

Nuffaluff · 28/03/2019 11:16

floisme
Spank me on the bottom with a Woman’s Weekly.
No really, don’t men, please. Even if I have got my greying, threadbare frilly pants on.

Floisme · 28/03/2019 11:13

Let's not forget cod pieces. If men don't like dressing up, how do we explain the absurd outfits worn by the military, the clergy and the judiciary?

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 28/03/2019 11:07

I know it's controversial. But I'm just saying maybe we can end all this by reintroducing the ruff

I like it as a strategy

that's my placard for million women rise next year sorted

Original poster

TheFrontHoleIsConnectedToThe · 28/03/2019 11:05

I'm not convinced that men as a group like typically feminine stuff. but I think that men as a group do like to see femininity performed. they are at the top of the gender hierarchy, so seeing gender being made concrete reinforces their position. Although I'm sure that's not how they think of it.

I don't know. I see what you mean about the gender hierarchy but I think it's a bit more than that.

I think if we look back (and again it was men doing the designing) at different points in time and in different cultures men had a lot more scope for getting fancy.

The default day to day outfit for a man in most of the world is a suit. It's the most boring item of clothing you can have.

I know it's controversial. But I'm just saying maybe we can end all this by reintroducing the ruff.

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BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 28/03/2019 10:59

I got paid today and am planning to spend £25 on a lipstick at lunch time as a treat for myself, so it's possible that I'm not the most reliable witness on this!

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 28/03/2019 10:58

men are the ones that like the frilly stuff

Original poster

TheFrontHoleIsConnectedToThe · 28/03/2019 10:54

My point really was, men are the ones that like the frilly stuff. And I wonder why it is. Some men almost treat their partners like dolls and I wonder a bit if this their way of acting out the "feminine" stuff they aren't allowed.

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Original poster

TheFrontHoleIsConnectedToThe · 28/03/2019 10:53

Let me not give any one the wrong impression.

It is all black M&S multipacks around here. I only bring out the nuclear stuff when absolutely necessary.

It was 19/20 that I started wearing dresses and skirts. Right now I don't think I actually own any. But I do buy my clothes from the "women's" section. So it's ladieee jeans. And a woman's top. Dh has never said anything but I'm an awful scruff at the best of times and if I just started wearing his clothes I think he'd be a bit disappointed. It's like leg hair etc. I'm 100% not doing it for me.

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moofolk · 28/03/2019 10:46

I don't bother with any of that stuff.

When I was younger (and much more beautiful, in that unconscious way that young women are), I saw my lack of makeup, hairy armpits etc as a filtering system; any man put off by that was welcome to go. Better than getting to know him and finding out later how shallow he is.

I am now approaching 40, still can't walk in high heels, don't wear make up, and look very silly and self conscious when I try to do those things. I wear comfortable underwear that I still think looks nice but is not lingerie.

Also been stricken down with a bout of late onset lesbianism which may explain a think or two but never gone short of sex with men.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 28/03/2019 10:28

yes, I think the point that if you are comfortable and not inconvenienced by the way you dress then it's a reasonable choice is good.

I've recently jettisoned high heels from my wardrobe. it was a good decision

Floisme · 28/03/2019 10:16

Sounds like a Victoria Wood song!

Original poster

TheFrontHoleIsConnectedToThe · 28/03/2019 10:12

As for lingerie - it's been my thing but I would think that, if a man's got as far as seeing you in your underwear then they've probably already decided they want to have sex with you.

Yeah. But less so after a decade of marriage when you're trying to convince dh on a Tuesday and he has to get up at 6.

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