Vancouver activist Morgane Oger wins ‘landmark’ transgender rights decision

People's feelings about themselves and their 'identity' is has never been in question. I'm really not sure if this talk of having one's "existence denied" is down to wilful ignorance, or just plain stupidity. This line of thought does not pass the most simple tests of reason or rationality.

In no other situation does a person's feelings about themselves and their identity trump all else. This is the apotheosis of Identity politics - because at the end of the day it really is just about Identity.

Identity is always a construct, though. 'Identity' and feelings about self shift and change throughout one's life. Being a woman; being black; being disabled; being one's age, is not about identity, but about factual reality.

Carowiththegoodhair

"but surely one ought to be able to debate the reality of it."

Exactly, it is a social/ideological construct which has no connection to biology or logic.
Human beings cannot change sex.
I have no problem with someone identifying as they wish, unless it impacts negatively on society as a whole.
In the case of transgenderism, it is impacting negatively on women and anyone who states simple facts.

I agree that your are on a hiding to nothing debating the morality of being transgender, but surely one ought to be able to debate the reality of it.

I don’t have an issue with dead naming or photos. These are public record, it’s chilling the way people are attempting to re-write history.

Perhaps the 'morality' aspect relates to the fact that we all know that no human can change sex; that no man can be a woman [and vice versa]; yet Canadian society is being gaslit by the most massive confidence trick. It is a nation state promoted deceit enforcing people to believe something they know not to be true.

This quote tickled me. Why would the Ogres kids even have to know about this? I'm sure those poor children are in no doubt to the biological reality of their parentage. Mentioning them in a pathetic attempt to gain sympathy is ridiculously transparent.

This is the second time recently I have seen children used this way.
Its not neccessary or a good look, regardless the 'side' of the adult with a platform.

Too be fair that Bill bloke sounds like a fundamentalist loon.
People can judge MO on their actions.

This quote tickled me. Why would the Ogres kids even have to know about this? I'm sure those poor children are in no doubt to the biological reality of their parentage. Mentioning them in a pathetic attempt to gain sympathy is ridiculously transparent.

And here is the ruling from the tribunal.

I personally don't think this is too bad. Stating that "Oger is transgender and hence unfit for office" is reasonable to prohibit. It doesn't mean that Oger's plentiful abusive and bullying behaviour can't be highlighted and criticised.

I was just reading an interview with Oger about the public funding for Vancouver Rape Relief.

I was struck by this quote:

"Morgane Oger, who chairs the Trans Alliance Society, said she has been advocating since 2013 for Rape Relief’s municipal funding to be stopped.

“Vancouver Rape Relief and other organizations that are publicly funded are responsible for keeping up the highest standard of inclusion,” Oger said, adding the group helps only a subset of women."

vancouversun.com/news/local-news/trans-woman-hopes-funding-cut-will-send-message-to-vancouver-rape-crisis-group?

The article also interview Kimberley Nixon. Background to Nixon's failed legal attempts to sue the women's charity in this 2012 Feminist Current article:

www.feministcurrent.com/2012/05/14/rape-relief-v-nixon-transphobia-and-the-value-of-women-only-space-an-interview-with-lee-lakeman/

I am gender critical but this case seems to be about a man trargetting a trans woman by distributing flyers riddled with accusations. It just seems on a whole different level to having a heated discussion with someone. I think the trans person was right to take action in the case.

It’s a bit like if someone started printing and distributing leaflets about Bindell or Farrow. It’s a whole new level of personal targeting.

It’s the extreme personal attack on someone that I don’t like. If it had stayed on Twitter that would be one thing but the man went to a lot of effort to target this TW.

So Canada has rejected biology, science and facts in favour of supporting delusions?
Transwomen can claim whatever “gender” they like, but they are biological males. They should be given the same human rights as everyone else, but the state should not impose their ideology and beliefs on other people. This is disgraceful - I hope there will be an appeal and legal challenge.

It's a worrying development but I understand why the judge rejected an argument based on the morality of being transgender. However I don't think the debate, for most people, has ever been about whether it's OK to be transgender or whether transgender people are real and it's frustrating that TRA's frame it this way.

^In defence of the flyers, Whatcott had argued that he was contributing to important public debate about the morality of being transgender. The judgment rejects this argument, Quail explained.

It is no longer “a legitimate subject of public debate, whether or not it’s OK to be transgender or whether transgender people are real,” she said.^

Canada is batshit crazy. Jordan Peterson may not be right about the patriarchy but he is right about Trudeau.

Dangerous precedent. Let the shitshow begin.