Deborah Orr

Give me strength - she’s thought about her views and reconsidered. Publicly. How exactly are we going to win this without people changing their minds?

This. I can't think of anything more counterproductive than others, who want to follow Orr's path, seeing her being met with disdain for not having seen the light earlier. Just about all of us, with very few far-sighted exceptions, could have seen the light earlier.

Yes it's interesting how she says it's the TRAs demanding complete capitulation that made her change her mind.

I've just seen Jenny Jones of the Greens tweeting in support of Debbie Hayden, Helen Joyce and Harry the Owl as well. I couldn't have foreseen that happening this time last year so it's good when any high profile person publicly speaks up.

Give me strength - she’s thought about her views and reconsidered. Publicly. How exactly are we going to win this without people changing their minds?

Has Deborah Orr actually said that she no longer stands by that article?

Quite right, Slippery: "I say to you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repents, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance."

Good on Deborah.

I’ve been reading Deborah Orr on Twitter a lot recently, and I think it is really important that she is public about changing her mind. It gives other a potential ladder to climb down if she goes first. Isn’t God meant to rejoice more over a repentant sinner? Been a while since my convent school days and I never was a believer.

That’s not to undermine the hard work of all the other great women who’ve been campaigning on this for so long, and the respect I have for them.

I saw a TRA try to target “let clothes be clothes” on Twitter for following Deborah, and then when letclothesbe refused to be bullied, tagged lettoybetoys to try to bully letclothesbe. The responses from letclothesbe were nothing short of magnificent.

Why they think that campaigns to break down gender as applied to clothes and toys would support their regressive views and sexist stereotypes is beyond me.

Heard Sally Hines on woman’s hour. Doesn’t come across as the sharpest tool in the box.

Professor Hines was interviewed alongside Prof. Kathleen Stock.
Link & transcript in thread
(Professor Hines did not come across at all well)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3427931-Prof-Stock-on-Womans-Hour-today

I think it's pretty brave to say "I was wrong" when you know the abuse you'll get.

When your long-term allies are turning, that's a brilliant sign. (I hope)

She's peak transed in the last couple of days and is fabulous - robust but always logical, factual & pretty polite (for Twitter).

Heard Sally Hines on woman’s hour. Doesn’t come across as the sharpest tool in the box.

Just caught up with Sally Hines, really how can someone be an academic with an inability to argue a coherent position and agree on terms of reference? It's quite incredible. She is literally incredible. I pity her students, how are they meant to learn anything from her?

The comments on Deborah's article show how much has changed too. I wonder how many commenter have changed their view too.

Helen Joyce is magnificent.

I have the impression Jack is/has been very troubled but may perhaps be in calmer waters now. She does great work with her cookery writing and I can cut her a lot of slack for that.

Professor Hines is ..... well. I have no words.

Helen Joyce is my current shero. Her actual job is being targeted and she's not giving an inch but remaining utterly smart and classy.

It shows my age when I dream of bumping into Helen Joyce at an event and somehow she becomes my friend. As does Janice Turner. Once upon a time it would have been someone cool who could invite me to exclusive clubs and introduce me to other famous people. Now I'm only interested in other middle aged women with clever and interesting things to say

Yeah I appreciate her. Have been in the same arguments on Twitter lately.

I also accept her changing her mind re trans issues. I did too. I remember having hour long debates on here defending them but I was blind to the impact on women. Now I know more and use my voice better.

I've given up on tracking Jack's constant oscillations.

I think Jack has previously had a trans identity and has also previously been called a terf (and also called others terfs).

I’m not sure what her current stance is. Hiding in the hope it all goes away, probably.

I remember Jack Monroe IDing as non binary (I think?) and then seeking to go back to female pronouns.

I recall seeing a debate where Jack Munroe screamed at the other party for discussing gender dysphoria. At that time she said she had GD and was non-binary. I had her down as full blown TRA nutter.

I'm not really surprised if even the most woke of those with actual GD and some sort of understanding of reality are getting pretty frustrated by the Sally Hines and Rachel McKinnons of the world insisting that it's all subjective and there never was such a thing as a woman anyway.

We get pissed off at what they are doing to women's rights but they are just as bad for Trans rights.

Love Deborah Orr! She is great on Twitter and I'm glad shes standing her ground after listening to people and drawing her own conclusions...
I've been on a similar journey to her with all this... I think we have all been socialised to consider other peoples feelings and rights (see primarily mens feelings and rights) above our own... and to do anything which is seen as 'nasty' or at least labelled that way, is incredibly difficult...
But I think she does a fine job of saying 'no this is not about trying to control how people live thier lives... it's about trying to control who is allowed in female space..and we have a right to try and protect ourselves... it's not the same thing as phobia or revulsion or lack of acceptance... it's not about nastiness... it's about protecting women from the very real threat of Male violence'

and many many women started off from a similar position to DO.

True, but most of them weren't spewing their contempt at us from a privileged media platform.

I'll never forget the shock of being dismissed as bigots by other women.

But this is running off topic. I'm not suggesting shunning DO, it's just that I don't see she's early lavish praise either.

I would expect Jack Monroe to unfollow soon enough, they def think TWAW, back when I was on twitter I had some interesting exchanges.

Deborah, happy to see a change in attitude. I do wonder how the hell she could write any of that nonsense linked above

I'm not bothered where people have come from - I'm happy that they've arrived and are adding to the growing number of GC voices, and many many women started off from a similar position to DO.

Indefatigable, I mean.

See also Julie Bindel and Sheila Jeffreys, both of whom have been writing about this for decades and still do. There are others: Rebecca Reilly-Cooper is another who has been writing for a long time about his.

Of course. I wasn't deliberately leaving the (fabulous, infatigable) academics-slash-writers out.

Apologies.

I was just thinking more in terms of general broadsheet columnists.

ColeHawlins

"Janice Turner and Hadley Freeman are the women journalists that I admire."

See also Julie Bindel and Sheila Jeffreys, both of whom have been writing about this for decades and still do. There are others: Rebecca Reilly-Cooper is another who has been writing for a long time about his.