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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Yorkshire Ripper Files

61 replies

hackmum · 27/03/2019 13:30

I haven't watched this documentary, but there's a very good review by Tim Dowling:

www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/mar/27/the-yorkshire-ripper-files-a-very-british-crime-story-review-a-stunningly-mismanaged-manhunt

Some of it is so chilling. West Yorkshire Police's multiple errors were the result not just of staggering incompetence but deep misogyny.

And this quote from the attorney-general's speech at the trial is just extraordinary:

“Some were prostitutes, but perhaps the saddest part of the case is that some were not. The last six attacks were on totally respectable women.”

I'd love to say things were different now. But they're not.

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OrchidInTheSun · 28/03/2019 10:27

Yes Flo - it's like Criado Perez says - men treat women as outliers. It's why they think it's outrageous that their freedom should be curtailed rather than ours.

On that note, did you see the op ed from the Times sport editor saying that we need to be kinder to transwomen? Hmm

Floisme · 28/03/2019 10:20

30 years? J.H Christ it's 40 isn't it Shock

Floisme · 28/03/2019 10:13

I would go as far as to say that the only men I knew personally who really cared whether he was caught were my dad - because he was worried about me - and men with Geordie accents who were sick of people taking the piss. Is that unreasonable? Possibly but 30 years on, this whole episode still makes me shake with anger.

Floisme · 28/03/2019 10:09

Obviously the effect was misogynistic but the intent not so much.
I was in some of those crowds and I beg to disagree. They were taunting the police because they didn't care whether the ripper was caught or not.

lucasthecat · 28/03/2019 10:05

The red riding books - highlighted the corruption misogyny and incompetence of the West Yorkshire Police - in a losely fictionalised version of the ripper enquiry. Truly horrifying - when you know it was all pretty much true - the same police force that used to go round to Jimmy Seville’s flat every week as part of the coffee club.

LangCleg · 28/03/2019 10:03

I also remember football crowds chanting 'You'll never catch the ripper' at the police.

To be fair, I think that's the one thing that got a tiny bit misrepresented in the programme. The football fans weren't lionising Sutcliffe for reasons of misogyny; they were taunting the police for not catching him (cos obviously, in those days, it was football fans vs police). Obviously the effect was misogynistic but the intent not so much. The commentary in the show presented it as how far Sutcliffe was regarded as some kind of folk legend.

Floisme · 28/03/2019 09:53

Yes to be fair to West Yorkshire police, I think they just reflected the general view at this time. The change in tone everywhere after Barbara Leach and Jacqueline Hill (university students) were murdered was palpable.

I also remember football crowds chanting 'You'll never catch the ripper' at the police. And men - many of whom I had considered friends - joking and sneering at the suggestion of a curfew on men. I've never forgotten those attitudes and I never will.

Rubidium · 28/03/2019 09:43

The Ipswich murders a few years ago were really reminiscent of the Ripper but they also highlighted how things have changed. I really noticed that the Suffolk police always referred to the victims as 'women', never 'prostitutes', even though they all were. Also the advances in forensic science and technology, with the CCTV footage and mobile phone tracing. Perhaps the most striking thing was that the Ipswich victims were all working as prostitutes to fund drug habits, and I don't remember drugs being mentioned at all in relation to the Ripper victims.

OrchidInTheSun · 28/03/2019 08:14

Emilybronte - my mum was fired when she got married in the late 50s. Perfectly legally.

I was young when the Yorkshire Ripper was active but I can distinctly remember the tone of the news reports changing on the radio when he first killed an 'innocent woman'. It was blindingly obvious even to an 11 year old.

meditrina · 28/03/2019 07:58

I found this a really interesting programme.

I am old enough to remember all this as it happened, and the fear, and how it altered how people behaved - mainly women of course, but also some men who learned how not to behave in accidentally threatening ways (walking behind a woman at night, for example)

It's the unoackaging of the discourse round the murders I have found interesting. Because yes, I realise how much I had internalised the idea that it was hatred of prostitites that became a wider bloodlust. But it seems that might all be an invented narrative, and it was just a desire to attack women and doing so at night in relatively secluded areas was 'safest' and of course prostitutes are one group that fit those target selection criteria.

I remember the reclaim the night campaigning (took part!) - and the XRay Spex track that featured briefly.

But bizarrely, I never (at the time) associated that Thin Lizzy track with these murders.

The detail that struck me most strongly from the programme is that the women who survived Ripper attacks and said he did not have a geordie accent were not believed.

And the message that I'm getting is that here was considerably more blind faith in authority. Most if the time, that was fine - most people are sufficiently competent and dealing with matters in a decent and fair enough manner. Back then it was close to unthinkable that police would be less than upstanding (except rare exceptional bad apples).
But looking at this investigation, and the social attitudes it exposes, shows how those assumptions were not well placed.

emilybrontescorsett · 28/03/2019 07:37

One of the shocking aspects for me was just how many women with children to support had to turn to prostitution.
There seemed to be no alternative.
I remember when I worked in a bank in my 20s and all the women with children had been told that they should pack work in and be full time mums!
No wonder there was so little opportunity for women.
Then the bloke dismissing the idea that it should be the kerb crawlers who were fined and penalised, laughing at the idea. Then saying no, the women were told they would be prosecuted as if that was the only rational response.
It reminded me of the Steven Lawrence case, institutionalised racism and sexism.
The black woman who was attacked was told she was wrong, and that her attacker was black!!
Wtf.
I truly believe the police were responsible for the total shambles of this case.
Disregarding factual evidence but believing nonsense.
The handwriting alone, they may as well have read the bloody horoscopes for inspiration.
I lived in West Yorkshire as a child when this was happening.
I remember the police setting up in a local car park in an attempt to catch the ripper. They had the fake handwriting displayed and the fake rape recording playing along with the photo fit. It was all about these 3 pieces of 'evidence' despite the fact that victims had repeatedly told police that he had a local Yorkshire accent.
Looking back now, my mum had to walk down an alley way every night after work to get home. I bet she was terrified but couldn't take the police advice to 'stay off the streets' as she had to go to work.

Decormad38 · 27/03/2019 23:11

I go shopping just next to where one woman was found. Its at the back of the shopping centre where I park the car. I always say a tiny little prayer for her.

Namebot · 27/03/2019 23:05

This is a real eye opener about the case. I knew about the whole “loose morals” and lack of respect given to victims who were prostitutes but I wasn’t prepared to hear murder victims referred to in the present day as “girls” by the former GP/pathologist. I was completely enraged when the retired police officer referred to murders of prostitutes versus “normal” murders and continuing to talk about women with a lack of morals.

FamilyOfAliens · 27/03/2019 23:00

I was in student accommodation a few hundred yards from where Jackie Hill was murdered. We had a visit from WYP telling us not to go out alone - there were a couple of long-haired male friends with us at the time and they were told the same thing as they looked like women from behind.

Seeing footage of the Reclaim the Night marches, which I went on, and the women’s minibus, brought it all back to me. I’d moved 200 miles away from my family to go to uni. It was such a frightening time when it should have been so exciting.

emilybrontescorsett · 27/03/2019 22:51

Totally shocking.
Made my blood boil
Why should women be told to stay off the streets and walk around in pairs, tell men to get off the streets!
Oldfield was incompetant and a mysoginist.

LangCleg · 27/03/2019 21:00

The Reclaim the Night march features!

LangCleg · 27/03/2019 20:59

All three episodes are already on iPlayer. All very good if excruciating to watch.

Lungelady · 27/03/2019 20:35

I went on the 1977 Reclaim the Night March in Leeds. So much anger.

SingingLily · 27/03/2019 20:32

And when they were fined, they had no money to pay the fines so they went back out on the streets to earn the money to pay the fines and then they got arrested and convicted and fined again... They were caught up in a vicious spiral.

BixBeiderbecke · 27/03/2019 20:26

Yes, the former superintendent (I think) laughing at investigating or arresting kerbcrawlers but happily arresting prostitutes and fining them so they had to go back onto the streets Angry Hmm

TheQueef · 27/03/2019 18:27

Ta Pearl I'll watch it later at Ddads, he will remember loads too.

pearlkent · 27/03/2019 18:01

I lived in the area when it was all going on (was in my mid-teens) and it's all seared into my memory. My brother would come and meet me at the bus stop (unheard of before then!) in the dark.
There was a big rumour going round that he dressed as a woman so that he could offer lifts to women who were scared of the Yorkshire Ripper.
It was a scary time.

pearlkent · 27/03/2019 17:57

TheQueef - it's on BBC4 at 9pm. It's a three-part series on over 3 consecutive nights. Tonight is part 2. I assume last night's is on iPlayer.

princessTiasmum · 27/03/2019 15:50

I watched this programme last night, and knew one of the women or a relation of hers as i recognised the name and area she lived in in Halifax as i lived across the road from this family
When the ripper was at his most notorious, my son brought a man home he had met in a pub, who spoke with a Geordie accent, the man had nowhere to stay that night and i was furious as it was just when they were looking for the man with a Geordie accent
However he did stay on my settee for the night, and in the morning had lit the fire and put the kettle on,
As it happened he wasnt the Yorkshire ripper, thank god, but he was wanted for an armed robbery in Leeds, and was arrested soon after,

hackmum · 27/03/2019 15:23

Fancy that. West Yorkshire Police, you say.

I know, right. You'd hope that they'd learn from their mistakes, wouldn't you? In their place, I'd feel an enormous amount of shame about the way the force had let women down, and a determination to do better.

But no, on they go, blundering along, still blaming victims more than 40 years later.

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