Another Mermaid statement: about Good Morning Britain and Caroline Farrow

Why is it a loaded term? It’s just a statement of fact.

to be fair, castration is a loaded term. We use the term chemical castration to describe the sentence imporsed on Alan Turing, for instance.

But I think that Caroline intends it to be loaded - for her, the act is not neutral.

Susannah Reid said 'so it wasn't illegal in the place where it was done. So to call it illegal is not true because it happened under the law in that country'

Yes, that really pissed me off. Imagine that being the thing you concentrate on. That it was not 'technically' illegal because it was done in a country where it was legal (even though, Thailand changed the law shortly after). Imagine, in a conversation about a 15 year old being taken on a plane to be castrated in another country for their 16th birthday, picking out the fact that because it was legal in that country, calling it 'illegal' is technically incorrect.

I mean, fucking hell.

Susannah Reid said 'so it wasn't illegal in the place where it was done. So to call it illegal is not true because it happened under the law in that country'

Right now there are loads of 13 and 14 year old girls in the US being given double mastectomies. I don't know if there is any specific law to prevent UK parents taking their children abroad for such surgery but if there is not, I would think (hope!) that a law would be put in place sharpish after the first case or two.

Loads of things are legal in other countries that are not legal here. Nigeria has an age of consent of just 11. How would UK law look on a parent who took their 11 or 12 year old child to Nigeria so they could have sex?

Stupid dangerous argument Susannah.

It's interesting that the stat,met suggests that's Mermaids want the discussion to be less toxic. I thought they wanted no discussion, no debate, no questions?

If they want discussion, surely they'd be happy to arrange one with concerned parents? Perhaps a Mumsnet webchat?

the use of ‘child abuse’ ‘mutilation’ and ‘castration’ cannot, in any reasonable persons view, be considered to be acceptable.

Mermaids Charity's statement concludes:

"We condemn all kinds of online abuse, including that aimed at transgender people, including, unfortunately, children, young people and their families. The impact of this on a vulnerable minority that are too often the victim of prejudice and discrimination cannot be discounted.

"Online hate is vile, including the tweets sent about Susie and Jackie, and those sent to Caroline Farrow, the tweeter. We condemn the vile tweets sent to her as much as we condemn the ones she sent about Susie and Jackie.

We welcome respectful and intelligent discussion about many topics involving transgender people, but the use of ‘child abuse’ ‘mutilation’ and ‘castration’ cannot, in any reasonable persons view, be considered to be acceptable.

Can the discussion about trans children please now become less toxic and abusive.

Thanks for unpicking the pregnancy/surgery comparison. I knew it wasn't a valid one but couldn't articulate why!

Is it still illegal for SRS to be done on children under 18? Someone is asserting it isn't any more, since the "law of mayhem" act was abolished but I can't find any info on this.

I was refused sterilisation at 39, I had 2 dc already and had suffered 2 miscarriages and then an eptopic. I had to be operated on with the eptopic and asked the surgeon to sterilise me as I knew there and then that I never wanted to be pregnant again. He completely refused despite me asking several times.

RedShoeBlueShoe

“I know a few women who wanted to be sterilised after having children. All were told it was not an option until they were over 30”

Yes. Even harder if you are an adult woman who does not want children at all. Once I hit 30 I was able to get sterilized but until then I was constantly told I might change my mind and so has to use various birth control methods that caused me all sorts of side effects and complications. I know from associating with childfree communities some women have an even hard time of it at 30+.

I as an adult woman was not “trusted” to make such a permanent decision about my fertility. And many other adult women aren’t. But children who are not “conforming” to stereotypes to their parents satisfaction or feel awkward in their bodies (which, yes, is normal) are somehow ready to make permanent life changing decisions about their fertility, sexuality, medical dependency, body cosmetics?

From earlier in the thread

If a 4 yr old was so unhappy with their body that they tried to kill themselves I would be investigating whether they had been sexually abused.

I would also play close attention to an 18mo playing with a bra. I'd not be the slightest bit bothered if they were wearing it on their head or trying to eat it, but if they were mimicking adult behaviour that appeared sexualised, I would be concerned.

I wish Suzy had been able to let her child be a child.

happydappy2
Couldn’t agree with you more.

Mermaids has got to be shut down. Children must be supported through puberty to mature and accept their bodies, an age limit of 25 should be set for sex reassignment surgery, and only then after lengthy counselling.

I also watched the BBC3 documentary and it struck me that Jackie was very goal orientated in the same way other young people might be about pursuing a specific career e.g. making it as a doctor, lawyer, actor etc...

It was notable too that Jackie was provided with considerable coaching from the 'experts' in the world of beauty pageantry.

One presumes that if given this level of coaching all of the other young women who wished to suceed in the competition would have had more success.

Why were none of the other young women accorded such 'priviledges'?

I also watched the BBC3 documentary and it struck me that Jackie was very goal orientated in the same way other young people might be about pursuing a specific career e.g. making it as a doctor, lawyer, actor etc...

I find this uncomfortable because being female/male is not a goal that can ultimately be fulfilled by someone of the opposite sex so it's setting people up to fail from the start (even if they don't come to that realisation until much later in life).

Secondly someone of that age ideally should be channeling energies into other areas of life as a foundation for future wellbeing. I feel this way about any teenager that is overly focused on appearance and cosmetic procedures at such a young age so it's not just specific to Jackie but obviously Jackie is quite an extreme case.

I watched the BBC documentary Jackie Green Beauty Queen and I feel horrified that the depiction of womanhood that Susie Green and the BBC is promoting via Jackie is a freakin beauty pageant.

It is also worth listening to Jackie's words in the documentary.
She is 18 years old at this point.
She is interviewed prior to having plastic surgery to implant prosthetic breasts.
She articulates how determined she is to get what she 'wants'

I know a few women who wanted to be sterilised after having children. All were told it was not an option until they were over 30

I am still being refused years after hitting 30. AND when my doctors freely admit how much of a disaster it would be for me to get pregnant again due to health issues, especially as I am on a large amount of strong painkillers. I couldn't manage emotionally or physically. I know this, they agree. But I still am told no over and over, and do not have the 3k ish to go private.

What was the bowel thing? Sorry if already mentioned

I watched the BBC documentary Jackie Green Beauty Queen and I feel horrified that the depiction of womanhood that Susie Green and the BBC is promoting via Jackie is a freakin beauty pageant.

Because nothing says “I do not have a narcissistic / pushy mother” as much as the bizarre, hyperreal world of beauty pageants.

And nothing says you must be a girl, because you enter a competition judging your physical appearance.

Or rather you must enter a competition judging your physical appearance, in order to prove it.

Susie Green is incapable of any kind of narrative that doesn't reflect her own ingrained sexism. Because she doesn't realise it is sexism.

Piers talking about respect on twitter but he loves to stir the pot himself.

I loved it when Caroline was asked about religion that she responded by talking about science

Caro well done. Susannah Reid came across as thick.
I didn't realise that about the bowel, that alone will peak more viewers.

"Sexual harassment of women and girls in public places inquiry
Inquiry status: open
Report published 23 October 2018, awaiting Government response.

Summary
Sexual harassment pervades the lives of women and girls and is deeply ingrained in our culture. This report, which follows the Committee’s reports on schools and workplaces, focuses on sexual harassment in public places: on public transport, in bars and clubs, in online spaces and at university, in parks and on the street; it is a routine and sometimes relentless experience for women and girls, many of whom first experience it at a young age.

(extract from full report)
"In line with findings from the British Social Attitudes Survey, overall belief in traditional gender norms is lessening, however young people show some concerning trends in relation to traditional gender norms.

There is a concerning finding that young people (18–24) tend to see more pressure on women to conform with feminine norms than older people. For example 73% say society tells us it is important for women to maintain the home, compared with a national average of 59%.

However, they are no different from others in their agreement with most masculine norms and are less likely (19%) than the overall average (27%) to think that men need sex more than women.
The social pressure on women to look physically attractive in public is most acutely felt by young women aged 18–24 at 87% (male average is 64%). Nevertheless this group is far less likely than older women (5% vs 18–47%) to find wolf-whistling acceptable.

18–24 year olds are most likely (20% vs national average of 14%) to think that men deserve to know where a girlfriend is. This presents as a measure of male entitlement which we know is generally strongly related to men’s perpetration as well as specifically to acceptability of sexual harassment in this survey." (continues)

www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/women-and-equalities-committee/inquiries/parliament-2017/sexual-harassment-public-places-17-19/

Yes, I think the weapomising of suicide is one of the most distasteful things about this whole movement. And all the TRAs, even the high profile ones do it.

The weaponisation of threatened and / or alleged suicides in order to secure funding for dubious charities is something I am very familiar with.

It is standard practice for dangerous quack therapists promoting conspiracy theories relating to satanic ritual abuse, MPD/DID, Illuminati mind control, etc. to claim that vulnerable survivors of ritual abuse will attempt / commit suicide unless their services receive funding.

Camila Batmanghelidjh made similar claims when Kids Company came under the spotlight for creative accounting, promoting bonkers new age therapies and for appropriating revenue streams that were meant to help the most vulnerable children and instead squandering them on an array of inappropriate luxuries for a selected special minority of and adults.

The modus operandi of Batmanghelidjh and various SRA promoting charities and clinics was / is to abuse vulnerable people as mascots and tokens by parading them around as “evidence” that what they are doing is virtuous and not abusive. This abuse of vulnerable people, in effect using them as a shield with which to deflect sceptical, rational criticism of their activities is horrifying and I see this mirrored in the use of Jackie by Susie Green.

I watched the BBC documentary Jackie Green Beauty Queen and I feel horrified that the depiction of womanhood that Susie Green and the BBC is promoting via Jackie is a freakin beauty pageant.

Because nothing says “I do not have a narcissistic / pushy mother” as much as the bizarre, hyperreal world of beauty pageants.

If anyone wants to learn more about the issue of the abuse of vulnerable people as deflector shields by dodgy charities and campaigning groups I would highly recommend this account, which depicts the opening of a horribly deep and complex rabbit hole that leads to many others, worthy of research by anyone interested in protecting vulnerable children and adults from abusive quacks and charlatans

hoaxteadresearch.wordpress.com/2018/01/28/sra-survivors-on-parade-fact-versus-fantasy-with-wellbeing-scotland-chief-exec/