Another Mermaid statement: about Good Morning Britain and Caroline Farrow

Or what was it Jazz Jennings did? Undid the poppers on her baby vest to make it into a 'dress'?

I mean, come the fuck on!

I read an article about Jackie Green the other day and the first picture was of Jackie at about 18 months old.... Holding a doll.

the focus on bloody Barbies and action men as a measure of whether a child has the right BODY is utterly horrifying! Is this what people actually believe? In 2019? Incredible.

Indeed. Play with the wrong toys and you definitely need to change your body because if that This is why I kept my kids off, I think it was Mermaids who were coming in for a 'talk' and I knew what it would be so a whole load of nope. DD plays with a mix of 'boys toys' and 'girls toys'. DS is the same but he also likes putting on princess dresses at nursery for some reason. So my daughter would be declared non binary probably, and my son a transgirl..as he tends to favour dolls and stuff to trucks.

Near every story you hear of transition..especially when its kids, is all about wanting long hair, dresses, glitter etc.

And yes, of course, to the fact that autism is over represented. And clarity of language being vital.

Fudging is beginning to look more than deliberate.

Those tweets are indeed disturbing. I've never seen them before.

The first one simply isn't true. And what's with the mention of God??

And the second one calling it a birth defect? And doubling down on saying how they were forced to play with the wrong toys?

Wondered if these kids have not matured beyond prepuberty is not contradicted one iota by those tweets.

My head can't cope with how illogical it all is!

In the documentary about Jackie's attempt to become a pageant winner (linked previously), she describes how she sees the genital surgery as 'correcting a small birth defect'.

Yes, she likens it to getting a mole removed. Now apart from the utter ridiculousness of comparing having your penis and testicles removed and that area fashioned into something that will need years, possibly a lifetime, of aftercare, plus taking lifelong medication, and being rendered permanently infertile... To getting a mole removed....

I have been thinking about this 'birth defect' anaolgy. Obviously it's true that there are some birth defects which require quite extensive and possibly risky surgery. We do do things to correct bodies which are 'wrong'. For example someone born with a heart defect may need open heart surgery to make their heart work better. Someone born with fibula hemimelia may need their leg amputated so that they can use a prosthesis instead, as this is generally deemed better for quality of life than trying to walk using the actual leg. But these are tangible, physical defects which can be observed and where the improvement with surgery or medication can be measured pretty well.

SRS surgery (or whatever we are going to call it) is actually far more comparable to someone claiming they have a mole on their arm, where no mole can be observed, and then demanding that a doctor remove part of the skin of the arm. Or claiming that they have a deformity on their leg, possibly one which is causing them pain, when all examinations, scans, x rays, show that there is nothing wrong with the leg. And then demanding that the leg is amputated.

Gender dysphoria is an illness of the mind. Most people with gender dysphoria have perfectly healthy and working bodies and sex organs (until the blockers start). The physical body is perfectly healthy, it is the mind that isn't. So why on earth are we cutting off parts of the physical body rather than putting all of the efforts into healing the mind? This just wouldn't happen in any other aspect of psychiatric medicine.

And the even more batshit thing about it is that the same people who are claiming that kids should be given access to this stuff because they will kill themselves if they don't, also turn around and compare being trans to being gay, and then also say 'but don't say that being trans is a mental illness, because being gay isn't a mental illness is it'?

The best arguments for allowing children and young adults to take their time and consider other options for dealing with dysphoria are those presented by those who have already been there. These are very key links regarding all of this for me; long.

4thwavenow.com/2018/12/19/the-theatre-of-the-body-a-detransitioned-epidemiologist-examines-suicidality-affirmation-and-transgender-identity/

Erin Brewer is churning out a video almost daily right now. She makes extremely good cases around the different reasons for gender dysphoria but most importantly that it doesn't need to be 'treated' by transitioning. She had gender dysphoria and still suffers at times today.

www.chooseyourowndiagnosis.com/2019/03/defending-my-mental-illness-gender.html

I can't find the link but I remember watching an American trans woman taking about how she'd probably not have chosen that route given the chance again as she was riddled with health issues.

I think castration is fair descriptor but misses out the amputation of penis. To be described in surgical terms would be bilateral orchidectomy and amputation of penis. Do you think SG would be happier with those terms? Because that’s what it would have said on the consent form (plus some other stuff, presume they used colon to form neovagina??)

Given that action men and barbies are bodies which are not humanlike its particularly bizarre. There are plastic surgery addicts who try and look like them and spend fortunes trying to.

Recognition of the vulnerabilities of people with body dysmorphia was made explicit in response to Superdrug:

January 2019 Guardian article:
" Superdrug tightens mental health checks on Botox customers
After NHS criticism, enhanced screening will check for signs of body dysmorphic disorder"

(extract)
"Superdrug is tightening its screening for people seeking Botox, to ensure that those with mental health problems are not having injections because they are dissatisfied with their body.

The high-street beauty and pharmacy chain has acted after NHS bosses criticised it for not conducting “medically responsible” checks before customers start treatment.

It has agreed to introduce enhanced screening specifically designed to see if those asking to have Botox or similar anti-ageing procedures have body dysmorphic disorder (BDD).

People with BDD worry obsessively about their appearance and some may seek cosmetic treatments or surgery to correct what they they see as flaws.

Prof Stephen Powis, NHS England’s medical director, welcomed Superdrug’s move. After the firm announced last September that it was making Botox available in its outlets, he had demanded it do everything possible to protect potentially vulnerable customers." (continues)

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jan/19/superdrugs-tightens-mental-health-checks-on-botox-customers

Given that action men and barbies are bodies which are not humanlike its particularly bizarre. There are plastic surgery addicts who try and look like them and spend fortunes trying to.

There have been campaigns for years about making more realistic bodies to make people more comfortable with reality, so sticking unachievable bodies in front of the noises of kids who already have hang ups about their own bodies just strikes me as deliberately trying to aggreviate that insecurity rather resolve psychological hang ups.

And given unrealistic representation of bodies in media and social media has been the subject of studies and they have found that this has had a negative impact on mental health you do have to wonder just how sinister this is and how planned to actively cause mental distress that it is. It could actively be used against the population if some we inclined to do so.

That Jackie Green tweet is disturbing - the focus on bloody Barbies and action men as a measure of whether a child has the right BODY is utterly horrifying!

Well, if you listen to what Susie Green says about Jackie's childhood, this is what she focuses on. It looks as though Jackie just believed what Susie said.

the focus on bloody Barbies and action men as a measure of whether a child has the right BODY is utterly horrifying! Is this what people actually believe? In 2019? Incredible.

Some people.
Horrifying how much power and influence they have.

That Jackie Green tweet is disturbing - the focus on bloody Barbies and action men as a measure of whether a child has the right BODY is utterly horrifying! Is this what people actually believe? In 2019? Incredible.

Yes, total clarity well worth aiming for!

Also, one of the effects of taking oestrogen in a man is that the breast tissue enlarges

Some treatments for prostate cancer cause this to happen.

Yes breast tissue.

I know this one is less clear but as we're discussing clarity of terms thought it was worth raising.

Breasts have function and are a female secondary sex characteristic.

Also, one of the effects of taking oestrogen in a man is that the breast tissue enlarges, like the breast buds in a girl going through puberty, but as far as I'm aware they don't get much bigger than that no matter how long the transwoman remains on oestrogen.

Men do have a small amount of breast tissue, naturally occurring.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/breast-cancer-in-men/

MtF - breast augmentation

Males don''t have breasts.
The implant used is not the 'breast'

When a transwoman or transman mentions having 'surgery', most people who aren't following this debate closely assume they mean surgery on the genitals. And of course there's widespread belief that if you call yourself trans you either have had that type of surgery or you're on the waiting list.

For some male transpeople undergoing 'sex reasignment surgery' this might actually be having plastic surgery on their face eg nose, ears, forehead, chin etc (called 'facial feminisation surgery' / 'FFS') or having implants inserted into their chest (called 'breast augmentation')

Yes. The imprecision around language has other consequences too.

When a transwoman or transman mentions having 'surgery', most people who aren't following this debate closely assume they mean surgery on the genitals. And of course there's widespread belief that if you call yourself trans you either have had that type of surgery or you're on the waiting list.

Hence some of the complacency of the general public about transwomen using female spaces - it seems often to be assumed that they now have something approximating to female genitalia, when we know that probably less than 20% fall into that category, and it's not a requirement to have that surgery before you get a GRC, and most trans people don't have or want a GRC.

However, 'surgery' often actually means various other types of cosmetic surgery.

FtM - double mastectomy

MtF - breast augmentation, facial remodelling, Adam's apple reduction, laser treatment to remove body hair

The insistence on using euphemisms is worrying. Euphemisms are a screen that people hide behind to avoid uncomfortable thoughts.

'Smear test' has recently been renamed 'cervical screening' to help women understand it better.

'Female cutting' was is now called by its description: Female Genital Mutilation. Even that is too disturbing, so we use just the initials FGM. But when it is important that people understand, we use the whole phrase.

"Bottom surgery" - what's that? Removal of piles? Repair of rectal prolapse? Treatment for anal cancer?

Genitals aren't bottoms!

In the documentary about Jackie's attempt to become a pageant winner (linked previously), she describes how she sees the genital surgery as 'correcting a small birth defect'. She was 18 yrs old at the time of the interview I believe.

Jackie Green's Tweet from last year in response to Janice Turner uses same description.

Its such a common narrative that the child is reported as saying at a young age, 'God made me in the wrong body' as if this is proof of the child's knowledge. The comment is of course out of all context. It may have been that parents were explaining how perfect their child was made etc (with possible references to God?) & this is then a response typical of a young child.

Has Jackie Green ever actually gone through puberty? What sort of effect does that have on somebody’s cognitive abilities? I’m guessing there’s not been any research into that?