Rod Liddle thinks Susie Green should be jailed

I was such a naive little chump at 18. I needed another decade to get more to grips with the world (possibly still working on it).

Meanwhile, I forgot the sodding 'approved pronouns'. He may have had a mastectomy, dearest Mods, if you prefer.

I'm so fucking worried for them, Popchyk. One has definitely transitioned to the point of taking enough testosterone to produce facial hair and slight male-pattern balding. I think, though not sure, that she may also have had a mastectomy. There's just no happy way back to your normal body, is there? You're committed. From 18.

An understanding of the risks is also relevant to whether someone can legally consent to a procedure.

"La la la i'm not listening, it will all be fine" doesn't cut it

From about 15 minutes in, would anyone class this as informed consent?

This is a very sobering read, Dodo.

www.transgendertrend.com/tavistock-experiment-puberty-blockers/

It is an analysis of the Tavistock Research study 2010 - 2014 into the use of puberty blockers for children. The study was never published and negative outcomes were ignored.

The Tavistock complains that there is "sparse evidence" in the field of puberty blockers for children and yet did not follow up on any of the participants in their own study when they turned 18.

An understanding of the risks is also relevant to whether someone can legally consent to a procedure.

"La la la i'm not listening, it will all be fine" doesn't cut it.

Of our three friends, two girls transitioned while their dads were seriously ill, in fact. The other family I know rather less well but suspect the child may be autistic like at least one parent.

Anecdotes are not data, but for goodness' sake...

Really sorry about that, Dodo.

Must be a very difficult position to be in.

Transitioning in response to childhood trauma (a parent being very ill for example) is quite common, unfortunately. But lobby groups are very resistant to this being explored.

Tavistock Bell report

"The Observer believes that the report questions whether the clinic should do more to consider young people’s personal histories, notably by examining whether they are on the autistic spectrum, have experienced trauma or are being influenced by social pressures, before helping them on the path to transition".

Now I want more than ever to go and shake our friends with trans children and ask whether they are getting these warnings (especially the child who transitioned while her dad was seriously ill following a heart attack, so is presumably already at higher familial risk, ffs).

I'm starting to feel complicit in this whole scandal by not mentioning the risks, actually.

So as such there is almost a locking in process where at a certain point it becomes all but impossible to reverse from.

And even the idea that 'social transition' is a simple reversible process is wrong. As soon as a child insists that they are the opposite sex and is indulged and allowed to change their name and insist on opposite sex pronouns, it is difficult for that child to admit that they have made a mistake and that they want to go back to their original name and identity. When everyone has bent over backwards to accept their special transgender identity, how can they just abandon it and go back to their original, ordinary self?

Susie Green & other TRAs who advocate pro affirmative medical interevention for children seem to often cite Dutch studies as evidence base 'best practice'

I was interested to watch this recent documentary about how some Dutch medical professionals are whistleblowing and interrogating the Dutch clinics' affirmative approach.

The key Safeguarding aspect which is raised is the failure to explore monitor and/or support people post medical intervention or to acknowledge the extent of emotional vulnerability / suicide ideation & actualisation.

The failure in duty of care post life changing medical treatments required for patients is identified.

A patient Patrick speaks very movingly and eloquently on the devastation caused to his life.

'Transgender Regret - A Documentary'

Peachyoghurt
Published on 24 Feb 2019
Not all transgender stories are about success. This Dutch docu shows the dark side of transition. A side that's not rare and needs to be talked about.

I don't take credits for this docu. It was on the Dutch public TV in December 2018.
I added English subtitles and my only purpose is to share it, so more people can see it.

Note: as far as I know, Patrick is still alive.
I hope he finds some happiness."

Hmph. Estrogen type oral contraceptives suited me well but I wasn't allowed to have them beyond 50.

The study found that trans women were more than twice as likely to have a stroke as cis women and almost twice as likely to have a stroke as cis men.

Trans women were also five times and 4.5 times more likely to develop blood clots than cis women and cis men, respectively

And this was after a relatively short time (8/9 years) on hormone therapy.

Would that risk rise with the length of time on hormones? The young people taking hormones today will have taken them for 30+ years by the time they are 50.

Nobody should feel guilt for being on good terms with reality

I just feel cast out and demonised for not wanting to take part in the family fantasy of how everything is just fine and a perfect example of a good family who are extra amazing for being so accepting.

I think a lot of us know that dynamic and not necessarily with regards to the trans issue

crikey I recognise that family dynamic Red.....

Amoregentlemanlikemanner I can honestly say I've never ever thought about that nor seen it as being similar to any sort of other pattern until you've posted that.

I just feel cast out and demonised for not wanting to take part in the family fantasy of how everything is just fine and a perfect example of a good family who are extra amazing for being so accepting.

Your post has taken me back quite a lot.

I feel guilty and often question myself (and comments of others questioning me don't help either) about why I never felt able to take part in the whole charade.

We have an over inflation of the risk of suicide which might lead to contagion in young people and a suppressed discussion of the risk of suicide post transition

And naturally leads to the question "WHY?" - why are young people being pushed so hard into transition, and everyone else into affirmation?

crikey I recognise that family dynamic Red.....

And how easy it would be for the patient to say they want to stop - teenagers not being known for their ability to admit they've made a mistake.

Just to put this out there. My sibling transitioned as an adult but if they changed their mind, my mother's world would collapse even more than it already has.

Thus there is the responsibility of the decision not just on my sibling, but also on my mother and how she has emotionally invested to deal with it. Plus to an extent my own views and it being almost a sibling 'told you so' scenario.

So as such there is almost a locking in process where at a certain point it becomes all but impossible to reverse from. Having gone through the process of rewriting history and emotional suppression everyone involved has created an alternative reality from which escape is all but impossible.

I do believe this goes a long way to explain post transition suicide - they do not merely come from a lack of acceptance from the rest of society. Its just as likely to come from the social isolation that arises from realising that transition isn't what was promised after all from people who were supportive of transition.

It annoys me that the suicide of pre-transistion trans identifying people is talked about a lot and weaponised, but there is near total silence on suicide post transition as a potential problem. It does not fit the narrative so its ignored. We have an over inflation of the risk of suicide which might lead to contagion in young people and a suppressed discussion of the risk of suicide post transition which leaves these same people at risk through lack of support networks and an environment which makes it impossible for discussion or expression of regret which might go a long way to reduce that risk.

None of this is healthy.

Weren't women's rights disregarded from the start when the male doctors required males who wanted to change their sex 'live in role' for two years?

Yes. Exactly. I think Ray Blanchard himself has at least partially acknowledged this on Twitter fairly recently.

Interesting what he says about his "estrogen-soaked stupor" too. We know puberty blockers have an effect on cognitive function - and yet they're giving them out to kids as young as 12 - makes you wonder what chance they have to reconsider this life-long medical pathway they are being set upon. And how easy it would be for the patient to say they want to stop - teenagers not being known for their ability to admit they've made a mistake.

See also recent Dutch study of increased cardiovascular risks.
Medical News Today

Gender transition drugs could be bad for the heart
Monday 18 February 2019 By Ana Sandoiu Fact checked by Jasmin Collier

(extract)
"However, how does hormone therapy affect people who are gender transitioning? So far, scientists have not addressed this question fully, so a new study aimed to fill this gap in research.

Dr. Nienke Nota — a researcher in the Department of Endocrinology at the Amsterdam University Medical Center in the Netherlands — and her team examined the medical records of 3,875 Dutch transgender people who had hormone therapy between 1972 and 2015.

Trans women twice as likely to have a stroke
Their study examined 2,517 transgender women and 1,358 transgender men. The women were 30 years old, on average, and they had received estrogen either alone or in combination with androgen suppressors.

The men were 23 years old, on average, and they received testosterone therapy as a part of their gender transition.

Dr. Nota and her colleagues clinically followed the trans women for an average period of 9 years and the trans men for an average of 8 years after they started hormone therapy.

Transgender surgery can improve life for most, study confirms
Transgender surgery can improve life for most, study confirms
The researchers inquired about psychosocial well-being and quality of life, as well as "functional contendedness" with the surgery.
READ NOW
The researchers examined the incidence of cardiovascular problems such as heart attacks, strokes, and blood clots among transgender people and compared it with the incidence of such events in cis men and cis women.

Cis people are those whose gender identity matches the biological sex assigned to them at birth.

The study found that trans women were more than twice as likely to have a stroke as cis women and almost twice as likely to have a stroke as cis men.

Trans women were also five times and 4.5 times more likely to develop blood clots than cis women and cis men, respectively." (continues)

www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/324482.php

I have not redacted the use of term cis to preserve the clarity of the article

Heterosexual males (the vast majority of men with GD) have autogynephilia.
Homosexual males with GD enjoy “femininity” and mistakenly believe this means they are “trans” or even women.
Females with GD have internalized misogyny and/or internalized homophobia.

Absolutely, clear as day.

And the 'feasibility' - exactly what Mermaids are pushing on younger and younger people.

Interesting what he says about his "estrogen-soaked stupor" too. We know puberty blockers have an effect on cognitive function - and yet they're giving them out to kids as young as 12 - makes you wonder what chance they have to reconsider this life-long medical pathway they are being set upon. And how easy it would be for the patient to say they want to stop - teenagers not being known for their ability to admit they've made a mistake.

This discussion does also suggest that it certainly may not be legal either and it call fall under the remit of other crimes relating to child welfare. The point being that there are people pointing to the fact there should be a specific law which relates to this exact situation.

It may be that as part of the ongoing review of alleged Safeguarding failures at Tavistock GIDS (made by professionals) the failure of duty of care to children who were known to the NHS service and not protected from private medical interventions which had been assessed as inappropriate /unethical.

THe GMC has been considering both Drs Webberley's sanctions/suspensions for some time.

Gender GP has detailed cases of children who were treated at their private clinic contrary to the assessments by Tavistock GIDS.

I don't know that it's a direct crime as such from what I have read. There seems to be a legal discussion about this grey area that is recent and ongoing. This discussion does also suggest that it certainly may not be legal either and it call fall under the remit of other crimes relating to child welfare. The point being that there are people pointing to the fact there should be a specific law which relates to this exact situation.

Thank you for that, very important this gets seen and heard

Hacsi Horváth was one of the panelists at the recent event in Washington
January 28, 2019
'The Inequality of the Equality Act: Concerns from the Left'

www.heritage.org/event/the-inequality-the-equality-act-concerns-the-left

GrinitchSpinach live commentary:
(extract)
Hacsi Horvath up now
HH:
-"It's spin. There are enormous gaps [in trans medial research]. Pretty much all the science is an exercise in confirmation bias and selection bias."
-Dutch doctors were the first to push puberty blockers and early hormones. American doctors have taken it even further/earlier.
-It's one way trip. You don't go off these things. (blockers)
-Small children who play with the "wrong" toys being rushed to pediatric gender clinics funded by multimillionaires. Again it's a one way trip.

-ROGD: a mass craze, predominantly girls. Gender identity is the new eating disorder.
-Nobody wants to be a bigot.
-Young girls have internalized misogyny, internalized homophobia, and often have experienced trauma.
-Young boys may have the beginnings of AGP fueled by pervasive porn.

-Blockers stop children from growing physically, but also blocks the mental and emotional maturation of puberty.
-Huge loss of follow up in studies: 30-40%. Where are these patients?If this were an HIV study, that would be considered an emergency level of loss to follow up.
-Happening mainly in English speaking countries
-Oregon will allow 15 year olds surgery without parental consent
-Johanna Olson Kennedy in LA will refer 13 year olds for radical mastectomy
-The barn doors are wide open.
-Society is indoctrinated to say "this is human rights. I don't want to say the wrong thing."

-Doctors are not considering differential diagnoses.
-The science is complete junk.
-We have to stop it. Thousands and thousands and thousands of children now are going through this.

[I like HH's voice! it is soothing.] (continues)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3490776-Women-Stand-Up-in-Washington-D-C?pg=3

it is worth comparing the considerable unquestioned platform accorded to Susie Green whose male child was 'transitioned' by US / Thai doctors so successfully with the experiences of mothers of female children who have been prevented from speaking out about the considerable harm done to their children by medical affirmation protocols & policies

This is a good thread that covers a lot of issues now being discussed here.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3541908-Regulatory-capture