Are there biological roots in the way MTF trans behave?

Autogynephilia is a paraphilia to do with men's sexuality.

So definitely a biological basis.

Like an onion skin, the layers that they've built around the paraphilia are being unpeeled.

The fake stats on victimisation and suicides due to children being 'born in the wrong body' have been blown apart, for instance.

The reaction to having third spaces in prisons, toilets and changing rooms have revealed that they are more interested in validation than concerns for safety. Validation is a big, big arousal trigger.

The narcissistic rage has been on display when anyone rejects the idea of gender and insists on restoring the word 'sex' to its rightful place. We guffaw at the notion of being 'assigned a gender at birth'.

It's been wrapped in so many layers but eventually we'll get to the heart of MTF transgenderism: men's sexuality.

I see it more as hormonal female behaviour (we would just scream a bit before dissolving into tears) but coming from a biologically male body.

But it is not hormonal. It arises from stereotypical ideas about behaviour & identity. Many gay men seem possessed of this.

A lot of it is narcissistic rage at people not doing what they want them to.

There is something about many gay/camp men which resembles a take-over by the negative feminine anima ( Jungian). Super-bitchy/aggressive/utterly narcissistic. Drag queen persona.

I recognise a lot of narcassistic rage in the "new" trans women, or at least the ones I read on twitter, but have never encountered it in the few transwomen I've met in rl - the ones that transitioned years ago and just get on with things. In fact the transwomen Ive known personally (only 3 so a small sample admittedly) have all been lovely people.

BMJ Published 29 October 2018
'Redesigning gender identity services: an opportunity to generate evidence'
authors: Richard Byng, general practitioner and professor in primary care research, Susan Bewley, emeritus professor of obstetrics and women’s health, Damian Clifford, consultant liaison psychiatrist, Margaret McCartney, general practitioner and freelance writer
(extracts)
"A recent feature in The BMJ implied that new services are all that’s needed to improve transgender healthcare. Providing timely, sensitive services for all, including those who decide to not pursue treatment or detransition, is important. But the article did not question the steep rise in referrals of mainly young women or the potential harms of medical overdiagnosis and overtreatment" (continues)

"Regulated medical practitioners should follow a framework of evidence, not simply respond to client expectations. Creating that evidence to inform quality standards is an ethical imperative. We need research to explore the interplays between gender identity, mental health and neurodevelopmental problems, sexual orientation, autogynephilia, and unpalatable gender roles" (continues)

www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k4490.full?ijkey=6lX93kQA0lz5YoB&keytype=ref

I recognise a lot of narcassistic rage in the "new" trans women, or at least the ones I read on twitter, but have never encountered it in the few transwomen I've met in rl - the ones that transitioned years ago and just get on with things. In fact the transwomen Ive known personally (only 3 so a small sample admittedly) have all been lovely people.

www.tbuckner.com/TRANSVES.HTM

Stumbled across this very old but interesting article. There is much that I disagree with about it and the comments on homosexuality especially, but I think the things about upbringing ring true. My father decided he was really a 'woman' and alot of this describes him very accurately.

There some species where an absence of females causes males to change sex. Many MTF work in IT where in many companies they would interact with zero females daily.

I'm not being entirely serious, but it is a pattern nonetheless.

Ereshkigal - I think some of those studies you refer to had a small number of participants, no control group, and those who participated were already on hormone treatments.

Yes, they're all like that, AFAIK. Im not suggesting the evidence which exists is particularly robust.

Thanks Rowantree, I'll look it up

I don't know, but this study suggests that there is a strong genetic predisposition for someone being trans.

Thingybob I think there has been discussion and critiquing of that study, such conclusions and the author's 'predictions' etc.

PrincessPlummy
You may find Miranda Yardley's (who is TS) writings of interest.

mirandayardley.com/en/a-history-of-autogynephilia/

mirandayardley.com/en/cross-dressing-all-the-way-to-the-top-where-all-the-transvestites-have-gone/

mirandayardley.com/en/pornography-and-autogynephilia-in-the-narratives-of-adult-transgender-males/

mirandayardley.com/en/what-autogynephilia-is-and-what-is-it-not-a-brief-note/

Autistic people do not lack empathy. Can we not perpetuate myths please?

I do not mean to be offensive Spartacus. Maybe empathy is not the right word but would you not agree that autistic people generally have difficulty in understanding the thoughts and motives of NT people? Just as NT people have difficulty understanding the way that autistic people think?

Identical twin studies indicate this, with a likelihood of both twins being "trans" lower than, for example, those twins exhibiting anorexia.

It may be higher for anorexia, I don't know, but this study suggests that there is a strong genetic predisposition for someone being trans.

In 17 sets of identical male twins, 41% were both transgender
In 10 sets of non identical male twins, only 10% were both transgender.

www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/2010to2014/2013-transsexuality.html

Narcissitic control pattern behaviours can exist in both sexes, regardless of gender identities or lack thereof.

People's behaviour patterns may be driven by a number of factors, the more obvious may not be the key issue.

See I don't see it as masculine as most men's men would never behave that way.

I see it more as hormonal female behaviour (we would just scream a bit before dissolving into tears) but coming from a biologically male body.

PrincessPlummy, Yes I'm convinced that there is a biological root to explain the behaviour of many trans people for 3 reasons;

The number of MTF trans people that report being on the autistic spectrum is staggeringly high. That surely is a biological difference and explains the lack of empathy and understanding many have towards other groups. But obviously NAAPALT.

MTF trans people are men so biologically different to women. Even Gina Rippons in the book mentioned above does not dispute the role of biology in observed sex differences. But obviously NAMALT

Finally and only anecdotally, many effeminate men who are either gay or trans do seem to be particularly sensitive and fly off the handle over the slightest thing. BUT obviously NAGorTWALT.

Ereshkigal - I think some of those studies you refer to had a small number of participants, no control group, and those who participated were already on hormone treatments.

So limited and scientifically dubious.

PrincessPlummy I see what you mean.
I doubt it's anything biological. More to do with selfishness, self-obsession, narcissism, and mental illness.

This was a pretty nasty attack by three TW's on a man in London. Particularly violent and persistent.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6370171/Three-transgender-women-mother-four-22-batter-man-central-London-station.html

There is limited evidence that there are some brain structure similarities between women and homosexual MTF trans people. However when you control for sexuality this disappears. When the question of sexual orientation is dealt with, similarities between heterosexual MTF trans and women haven't been found. However they were different from men who weren't trans in an area of the brain relating to body self perception.