5 Transgender Women Who Have Fought Their Prisons From Behind Bars

NellieEllie thanks for taking me in good faith - I was honestly quite shocked by the hostility I initially received!

PrincessPlummy its worth spending a little time reading other threads on the board and understanding how the platform and discussion here works. SM platforms work differently & have different conventions etc.

Rowan I was trying to get across the idea that in the olden days the only men you'd see in the ladies were ones who, it was assumed, were post-op and many women were more comfortable with them. Whereas now, thanks to the push by TRAs, that assumption is no longer valid and it could be an AGP who has had no surgery. And women are not mind-readers to know the difference (except possibly that Lib Dem MP who can see people's souls..) So the unspoken accommodation made by women in the past on the assumption that these transwomen were post-op and posed no threat is now at an end.

But you're absolutely right - that assumption probably never was valid, even in the past, and there were probably women made to feel uncomfortable or excluded from those spaces by my family friend who never spoke up. I'm sorry not to have thought that through.

I don’t think post op transsexual women are indistinguishable from men politically

Politically? What’s that got to do with it?

They are different biologically.

It’s like me saying ‘well I don’t think brain surgery and a vaccination are different from a flower arranging point of view, so we will just do some brain surgery, rather than that flu jab you came in for... no? Well that’s very bigoted of you it wont hurt.’

R0wantrees Just in case you thought you were responding to me I didn't say that

PrincessPlummy
Im responding to the quoted section (in bold), which was from a post Xiaoxiong
Its a general statement though, not about whether or not a male TS 'passes' or experiences no issues/problems but about the impact on girls and women. Their needs, feelings & rights for safety, dignity and privacy seem to have been ignored.

(Im on the thread so could you please not @ me as it generates unneccessary emails)

Well, I have to hold my hands up then. I’ve posted a few links without commentary - just because Ive come across something in passing I think may be of interest, but either because Im in a hurry - or because I feel my opinion is predictable, I don’t put much in comments.

As for this piece, well rights are rights whether you are in prison or not. If it’s accepted you have the right to hormone treatment to transition, then that should apply. That’s partly why I’m opposed to self Id. There should be some assessment as to whether people have genuine dysphoria. Someone who rapes women, for example and then expresses a wish to transition may have a hard time onvincing that they are “a woman in a man’s body”.

Everyone in prison should be safe of course whether trans or not. So keeping trans people safe should not endanger others - ie putting in a woman’s prison merely shifts safeguarding concerns.

I don't know how we can sort out the issue of toilets without throwing them under the bus The biggest issue is that We, women are being told we have to sort this out by shutting up and accepting whatever it is TRAs want us to accept. That is what sts up the cognitive dissonance, your need to apologise for feeling as you do!

Why is there an issue with your friend using the men's facilities? Male violence? Why aren't men being asked to sort this out, to accept tranwomen without demur? Transwomen expand the bandwidth of male, just as transmen expand the bandwith of being female.

It really should be that simple! But we are dealing with a dysphiria and so expecting a reality based solution from the sufferers is like expecting your dog to miaouw!

The awful thing is that for many years she used women's loos without issue, of course people realised she was not female but it wasn't a problem.

This is without issue/not a problem for your family friend?

There may have been women & girls using single sex spaces who did have had an issue/problem, stayed feeling uncomfortable or left without some male transsexuals recognising this.

The various combinations of female socialisation, empathy & the lack of, coercion, need for affirmation, male-entitlement etc are quite complex.

Anyway am off out in me manly clothes
But I still won’t go into the guys loos or think I am a sorta man

You don’t have to keep saying your not homophobic or transphobic

It’s not necessary

It was a guy dressed up in a way that he stood out cos he want ed to

Look at me look at me

Blush pink 😂😂😂

Am I one ?

Do you wear blush pink? Do you have a ladybrain?

Anyway how can you sorta be like a woman?

What’s a sorta like a woman ?
How can we tell

Am I one ?

Me too, Princess I struggle to know what to do about it.

I would say that you are peaking, slowly. You say you want to be nice. Ask yourself why?

The man who made you feel unsettled wasn't being nice to you or any other woman in there. He was expecting you to play the game according to your female socialisation. He was relying on you being too nice to complain. He may have had lots of surgery... he still made you feel uncomfortable! Many with GRAs do not 'pass'.

That is the shit storm TRAs have whipped up for transwomen. And we women are getting the blame for it!

Sure! An old-school, GRC holding, post op transsexual is "sort of" like a woman. But crucially they are NOT women, and the knock on effect of claiming that they ARE women affects women's scholarships, shortlists, prisons, rape shelters, health care, schools, sport, etc etc etc.

This was a very good article that opened my eyes to a lot of the motivations behind this: notthenewsinbriefs.wordpress.com/2018/04/05/have-women-and-girls-got-too-many-rights/

I live in a country where men wear kilts. Don’t mean that they magically turn into women and go into the ladies

It’s a bit of power thing by these guys and a bit of a kink thing as well

Ooooh the thrill how naughty am I

It s not being mean it’s using your brain

Transphobic that insult don’t mean a thing now

You feel unsettled not because there is someone who is trans, but because there is someone who is male, because of male pattern violence and what we all know, which is that women are more at risk from men than the other way around. And all the research shows that transwomen offend at the same rates as men, not women (though those stats are being increasingly skewed with crimes recorded by stated gender, not sex).

Years ago we could trust that the only men in our spaces were post op transsexuals, the "old school" ones. And there were so few it didn't impact on the vast majority of people. Now I'm told that up to 15% of the population may be trans according to Stonewall's definition of the trans umbrella. And 80% of those will have no surgery at all.