Julia Hartley-Brewer and India Willoughby

TRAs advocate that girls and women have no right to say no to males

Summary of the problem.

Yes we mustn’t discuss things that will upset our delicate constitions. We’d better withdraw and let the men discuss manly things.

Would that work for India?

Last week was my first ever visit to Mumsnet. Honestly, I thought it was going to be lots of stuff about prams, or family-related matters. A sort of online This Morning minus Phil and Holly..

.

Funny but also - has anyone sounded more male? This is exactly what a (quite sexist) bloke would think.munsnet must be like.

yes, it's a marvel how plain speech cuts through the TRA obfuscation.

All this faffing about with intellctualising over the meaning of "women" or whether or not sex is a spectrum clouds the issue, which is: TRAs advocate that girls and women have no right to say not to males who want to shower beside them at the gym.

That's it, right there. It all boils down to that.

Because if you agree that no, males don't have that right, then you agree that TW are not equivalent to girls and women, and once you agree to that, absolutely EVERYTHING is open for debate, and oxygen flows into the room and in the prison cells where right now idiots claim rapists have the right to bunk with women.

"I don't share her views on a number of things, but I do have a sneaking fondness for JHB. It's hard not to have a little crush on an intelligent, quick witted woman who refuses to be bullied by men of any political persuasion. Her confidence is very appealing."

Seconded (thirded?)
We could all learn a lot from how she handles herself.

don't share her views on a number of things, but I do have a sneaking fondness for JHB. It's hard not to have a little crush on an intelligent, quick witted woman who refuses to be bullied by men of any political persuasion. Her confidence is very appealing.

Pretty much how I feel too.

Incredible work by Owen Jones this evening. He has somehow managed to turn the Christchurch massacre into something about him in less than 4 moves. It’s like a self-aggrandising version of Mornington Crescent.

Wasn't that WelshGasDoc guy a friend of Harrop's? The one who told him it looked bad when he doxxed and harassed a woman? And who Harrop (briefly) listened to?

I could be misremembering...

A "confrontation of sorts" in Bristol and "acting in self defense" at speakers corner - gosh those make me laugh. But someone who didn't have the background to these issues would take it as read.

Isn't it lovely we have the Internet to easily preserve everything that has been said?

Owen Jones debates with all the confidence of an entitled, mediocre man and all the education of a sixth form politics student despite being an Oxbridge graduate. He has the same effect on me as Trump in that I find them both so willing to sacrifice their dignity at the alter of their ego that they are cringe inducing to watch.
Oh that feels better 😀

Yes sorry, I should've said - I didn't mean the news about bombing cheered me up, but the way that JHB pointed out so explicitly in the article how clearly he'd made it about himself. I think it's cos I saw this only 3 days ago:

Dave Jones 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 🏳️‍🌈
@WelshGasDoc
Incredible work by Owen Jones this evening. He has somehow managed to turn the Christchurch massacre into something about him in less than 4 moves. It’s like a self-aggrandising version of Mornington Crescent.

I don't share her views on a number of things, but I do have a sneaking fondness for JHB. It's hard not to have a little crush on an intelligent, quick witted woman who refuses to be bullied by men of any political persuasion. Her confidence is very appealing.

Although I don't like Squealer at all, I did feel sorry for him in that piece where he flounced. It was a highly emotive topic, and I did feel the other two were playing down the fact that it was a gay venue targeted. However, given his subsequent displays of lesbophobia and blatant misogyny, my sympathy has waned and it does indeed now just look like a manchild having a tantrum and making it all about him instead of articulating what was the issue with the comments the others made.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/14/the-orlando-shooting-is-not-about-owen-jones-despite-what-his-ha/

I'd never seen the Owen Jones clip before. I know he's a clickbaiter but it didn't half cheer me up

Goodness me that Pink News article is shocking. So much misinformation and veiled threats of violence.

I don’t want to see anyone – from either side of the argument – get hurt. Which is why the government and the likes of The Sunday Times, Daily Mail and Mumsnet need to show some responsibility.

If those various organisations don't shut up raising questions about the GRA and give into the trans lobby then people are going to get hurt. It seems IW missed the news that women already have been hurt.

JHB is fucking awesome!

I started to love her when Owen Jones walked out of a SkyNews interview because JHB wouldn't allow him to talk over her. Every point that he made was rubbished (politely and calmly) by her.

He threw his toys out of the pram because the nasty lady and the interviewer were not allowing him to grandstand.

And she wears an Adult Human Female hoodie.

Popchyk one of these days a journalist will challenge India Willoughby about the claims, accusations, unfounded smears and sexism in that article.

That reference to the Star of David is despicably offensive.

"The Sunday Times, Daily Mail and – wait for it – Mumsnet – are hounding trans women in the same way Hitler went about stigmatising Jewish people.

Seriously. That’s no exaggeration."

Never gets old.

Here's the interview with Julia H-B, Justine Roberts & IW

Same with the Nuremberg rally stuff to refer to Mumsnet.

IW's opinion piece in Pink News (this followed the interview with Julia H-B & Justine Roberts last year)

'India Willoughby: Britain’s rampant transphobia has me worried for my life'

(extract)
We’re heading for a modern day Stonewall riot – unless the government and media clamp down on what has become rampant transphobia.

Transgender people are being bullied and hounded like never before – and we need to be very careful about where all this unfettered hate dressed up as “free speech” is going.

The Sunday Times, Daily Mail and – wait for it – Mumsnet – are hounding trans women in the same way Hitler went about stigmatising Jewish people.

Seriously. That’s no exaggeration." (continues)

The act has stalled through pressure from hardline feminist groups, who see all trans women as potential rapists in dresses.

Cabinet minister Lis Truss has now tweeted her support for Mumsnet, despite the site hosting rampant transphobia. She needs hauling in to the PM’s office – and Theresa May needs to keep her promise about protecting trans people. (cont.)

I defy anyone to visit Mumsnet right now, look up transgender, and tell me that the vicious and mocking threads about trans people would be allowed about any other demographic. It’s the stuff of pitchforks and lanterns. The same rhetoric about race, religion on sexuality would lead to prosecutions and official condemnation.

Mumsnet CEO Justine Roberts squeals that trans people highlighting the content – including threads which out trans people – to some of the site’s main advertisers is out of order. She describes it as an attack on free speech. This might be a shock to Justine, but trans people have free speech, too.

There’s even a debate about introducing a new trans Section 28, clamping down on educating the public about what transgender is.

Justine is adamant there’s nothing transphobic on Mumsnet. Only reasoned debate. She wants transgender visitors to Mumsnet to be “happy and supported.” It feels reminiscent of when Cruella de Vil opens a home for stray dogs in 101 Dalmatians.

As I say, take a look for yourself. Trans groups are more than happy to debate any subject Justine or her murky corner of the web wants – but the material on the site isn’t a discussion. It’s vicious, nasty persecution

Mumsnet’s reputation for transphobia is fully deserved. Hardliners openly strategise ways to make life tougher for trans people: Passengers warned not to travel on sleeper trains because they might end up in the same sleeping berth as a woman who’s trans. Support gathered to stop trans women being allowed on Labour’s all-women shortlists. National meeting organised where they can clap and cheer their hatred.

It’s all very similar to the way the National Front used to operate.

I’m sure most people who use the site are decent folk. They want nothing to do with the rabid mouth-frothing going on by so-called “feminists.” (continues)

I would really like some of my women friends in the media to do the same. Whether it’s an article or a broadcast.

A prominent statement of the facts needs to be made, in a cool and rational manner, so someone gets heard. Because frustrations are boiling over. What started as angry words online is now manifesting itself on the street.

Last week, one of these hate groups held an event in Bristol. Trans allies turned out to support the trans community, and there was a confrontation of sorts.

We also have an ongoing court case involving a trans women accused of assaulting someone at a demo. The trans woman claims she was acting in self-defence.

I don’t want to see anyone – from either side of the argument – get hurt. Which is why the government and the likes of The Sunday Times, Daily Mail and Mumsnet need to show some responsibility.

The current attack on trans people is unprecedented. Any show of support would be greatly appreciated.

Last week was my first ever visit to Mumsnet. Honestly, I thought it was going to be lots of stuff about prams, or family-related matters. A sort of online This Morning minus Phil and Holly. The reality is more like a Nuremberg Rally. It’s very scary." (continues)

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/04/24/india-willoughby-transphobia-opinion-worried-for-my-life-mumsnet/

Doesn't age well that article

I don't understand why "transwomen" is so terrible. I don't know why we can't recognise biological fact whilst also respecting a person's gender incongruence.

Because according to India, India is a woman in exactly the same way as you are a woman. The fact that India does not have the fundamental biological and experiential features of being a woman like a uterus, ovaries, periods, gestating a new human being inside your body and pushing it out of your actual vagina, menopausal flooding and night sweats, the whole nine yards, are just details to India. Such teeny weeny details as to be invisible. There is no material difference between you and India in this scenario, and if you suggest these details are actually a central part of the way you inhabit your body and experience the world, then you are an evil transphobe who thinks all trans people should die. Or something.

Welcome to looking-glass land.

I don't understand why "transwomen" is so terrible. I don't know why we can't recognise biological fact whilst also respecting a person's gender incongruence.

I will never forget IW on CBB trying to bully the women into recognizing her. The result was Amanda Barrie saying "course you are a woman" yet neither she nor any of the other women there really truky interected her in the same way they with each other. They were just paying lip service. On one level it was a bit depressing but they did seem to subtly undermine IW who did not have the selfawareness to realise.

JHB is fucking awesome!

I refuse to walk around with a Star of David in my bag".

Disgusting.