This Morning and Katie Yeomans

I asked my 4 year old if it was a man or a woman. She said straight away 'it's a man! But he looks quite girlish'.

Customer service staff would be well within their rights to address everyone as "person". They could have little signs up explaining why. That would peak trans a couple of million with wonderful rapidity.

I feel so sorry for those in public-facing roles, who are being used by people like this to give validation and/or a kick.

Exerting manipulative pressure on staff like this is horrible bullying. It's actually an abusive dynamic, I would say. Forcing compliance, threatening punishment, gaslighting to the nth degree.

I really hope that the rail service provides good back up and support to the staff.

Repeal. I didn’t feel quite so strongly about the Posie interview, because I was star struck just watching Posie 😍. Strangely Katie didn’t have the same effect!

Oh dear God, I have now remembered why I don’t watch Morning TV.

I felt like that after the Posie incident! I tried to watch the clip of this and I. Just. Couldn’t.

Oh dear God, I have now remembered why I don’t watch Morning TV.

Phil and ?Holly, making those pathetic sad, supportive faces. And Katie has a voice like gravel, deeper than Phil. Why did we need to have a whole lifestory? Do you think it was because there was totally insufficient material to make a piece out of this?

Poor bloody train staff, if it isn’t enough to have to work for and put up with all the complaints about Southern Fail, they have to deal with this shit too. Can you imagine what it must be like to work in the ticket office at Brighton? The staff must be specialist non pronoun user speakers.

This Morning treatment by Eamon Holmes & Ruth Langsford of Posie Parker in contrast with their clear support for India Willoughby was striking (& shockingly sexist).

September 2018

threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3377753-Posie-on-This-Morning

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3378559-To-ask-you-all-to-tune-in-to-This-Morning

Rocky, I enjoyed it too!

This Morning chose which horse they wanted to back a year or more ago, and it wasn't the one representing women (52% of the population and a significantly bigger majority of their audience.) Having sneered at, belittled and misrepresented women's concerns it seems they might be waking up to the fact that their horse is actually a 3 legged donkey with a blow-up doll in the saddle, and the rest of the sane world is now galloping past them.

Poor 'self-identified nice guy' Schofield. You can see realisation dawning.

Do you think one day we will look back on this and laugh at the ridiculousness of this time?

Only after all of the safeguarding, duty of care failures, political failings, investigations into media coverage, sports, NHS, prisons, Social Care, education, judiciary, civil service, lobbying etc has been dealt with & vulnerable children and adult supported.

I am surprised Katie did not change her surname at the same time.

Do you think one day we will look back on this and laugh at the ridiculousness of this time?

And yes the use of the term 'girls' for middle aged transwomen is also something I find offensive. Also quite telling about their motivations. I haven't called myself a girl for at least 20 years (ok, ok, more like 30).

Apparently the train employee was rushed didn't even make eye contact so obviously went on their voice - which is masculine and deep.

What a pile of narcissistic wank on television when we have so many truly serious things happening right now.

Most people would be wary of calling an obvious male (like ‘Katie’) ‘madam’ in case they cause offence. How are we supposed to know who is trans and who is non-binary and who is not? It’s impossible to be 100% accurate based on visuals alone all of the time.

Not just visuals. When Aimee Challenor gave preferred title as 'Miss' during a telphone call and this was queried by a train company employee, this led to public outcry and also an ending of TFL announcements re 'ladies & gentlemen'. I still don't understand the connection between the two... seemed a bit like penance/ransom demand.
2017 HuffPost article by Sara C Nelson

'Green Party Activist Slams TfL As Gender-Specific Announcements Remain Ahead Of London Pride
'We deserve better than empty promises from Sadiq Khan and TfL.'

(extract)
A Green Party activist has expressed disappointment that Transport for London (TfL) continues to use gendered language.

It comes six months after Sadiq Khan revealed the “ladies and gentlemen” Tube and bus announcements could be scrapped after a transgender woman was ridiculed by staff.

Aimee Challenor, who is Equalities Spokesperson for the Green Party, was left humiliated after she was told she “didn’t sound like a Miss” during a telephone call to TfL’s Oyster helpline.
The 19-year-old’s experience was put to the London Mayor by Green Party GLA member Sian Berry, prompting Khan to apologise “unreservedly” for the remark and to issue a pledge on implementing gender-neutral announcements across its network.

But Challenor complains examples of gender-specific language across TfL, including recorded announcements, remain.

She also claims a TfL staff member who requested anonymity supplied her with a screenshot of the TfL “rule book” which states: “When using the Public Address (PA) system, you must start all service information announcements with ‘Ladies and gentlemen’, except for routine announcements such as ‘mind the gap’ and ‘stand clear of the doors.’” (continues)

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/lgbt-disappointment-as-gender-specific-tfl-announcements-remain-ahead-of-pride_uk_595cf7cde4b02734df352e63

I think Lily Madigan raised a similar complaint following a phone call with a bank when Lily Madigan gave 'Miss' as preferred title.

Oh dear Katie, I’ve just watched that clip. It all sounds a bit of a stretch to me darling. A lot of the time when people serve you in a shop, or deal with an enquiry at reception they don’t even look at you. I’ve had some doozies. For eg, I went into the council back when I had a guide dog. When the person who I was there to see came out to get me she helped me to the room for the meeting. Then she fussed the dog, and then she asked if I’d driven in. I was like ‘no, hardly, I’m blind.’ Then we both had a laugh and got on with it.

Seriously though Katie, hunny, I get misgendered all the time, or I get mis sexed, occasionally by mistake because I have very short hair and dress in a masculine way, but mostly by people (men) who can see that I’m female, just not the kind of female they approve of. You know what the best way to deal with that is sweetheart, it’s to just ignore it, and as you actually are male, they aren’t really getting it wrong are they.

I think next time someone spots my grey roots and accuses this COMPLETELY NATURAL BLONDE of being a greying tart I will ask them to give me £1000 for the sheer stress of not being able to go about my day enjoying my blonde status unchallenged

Ridiculous. I'm all for people wanting to identify as something that they physically are not, live and let live and all that, but don't go getting the hump because you sound and look like a bloke!

So can any tall woman with short hair who is occasionally called ‘sir’ now sue for misgendering and hurt feelings? Or does it only apply to biological males annoyed that their use of dainty blush pink clothing and high heeled shoes is still not enough to hide the glaringly obvious fact that they’re male?

I’ve never been misgendered because I’m fairly small with feminine features but I know it happens at times, often to women who are unusually tall or strong. It’s less common with men because a male physique is fairly distinctive but also because calling a man ‘madam’ traditionally could be an insult and a risky thing to do. Is there any allowance made for the fact that those who work with the public have to make careful calculations on these things every day already?

Most people would be wary of calling an obvious male (like ‘Katie’) ‘madam’ in case they cause offence. How are we supposed to know who is trans and who is non-binary and who is not? It’s impossible to be 100% accurate based on visuals alone all of the time.

It is interesting to watch woke cookie guzzling Phil Schofield squirming on the horns of this thorny dilemma. Which to side with - basic common sense or disingenuous virtue signalling??

This was the best bit for me.

Any chance Katie talks to as many strangers as possible to see if they will be misgendered?

Katie described how 'nice' it was to receive affirming comments / compliments when first 'dressed as a girl for a laugh'

(can I also highlight how many middle aged males who identify as women seem to enjoy /use the term 'girl'? This is so jarring given the long history that adult women spent challenging the underlying sexism of the term when comparable adult men were not called 'boys' see twitter #girlslikeus etc )

Katie said that they have been to Brighton many times as it is so lgbt friendly. So then why did Katie have to ask at the train station what platform Katie should go too?Any chance Katie talks to as many strangers as possible to see if they will be misgendered?

Anyone who thinks that putting on a dress or having their genitals surgically altered makes them a woman is deluded.

Short skirts and high heels. It saddens me that this is what being female is apparently reduced to, and enforces that for a lot of trans individuals it is definitely based on a male vision of womanhood.

Its sexist and regressive.
The idea too that a male who has plastic surgeries creating replicas of 'breast' and/or a surgical orifice created in order to be 'fully/meaningfully transitioned' to become women also reduces what it is to be a woman and female to specifically male preoccupations.