4thWaveNow has some incredibly disturbing stuff from Facebook

WTAF..?!

I spotted tg
the bewilderness posting on those tweets.
Hey, if you are reading

I found the thread about chest binders particularly worrying. One parent was talking about how her 'son' was having breathing difficulties and might end up with permanent lung damage, but doctor said all would be well as long as 'he' lifted it up and took a few deep breaths twice per day. Parent seemed to accept this and be relaxed about it.

I might be wrong, it's difficult to say from a small selection of screenshots, but I saw a difference in the attitude of the girls towards the packers as opposed to the binders.

The impression was that it was the parents pushing the packers, and the girls were not that bothered. Parents were talking about buying a packer when their child had not asked for one, or that they child just leaves it lying about etc...

Conversely, on the thread about binders, the issue seemed to be with getting the girls to take them off sometimes. The talk was about health problems arising from the girls wearing them round the clock.

So it seems to me that these young girls aren't embracing being boys, so much as rejecting being girls, which I know has certainly been mentioned on these forums. It's more to do with not wanting to grow up as a female in a misogynistic society, rather than actually wanting to be male.

My sibling transitioned as an adult.

I don't think all of this is restricted to children. I bet there is a pattern for older transitioners too.

It's a shame Brexit is drowning this out.

Hopefully next week this will gain more traction.

Ffs. HOW is strapping your pre-pubescent child's penis down with tape something that wouldn't make any sane parent have a fucking word with themselves?!

It reminds me disturbingly of those Victorian anti masturbation devices - basically a cage on a belt that made erections uncomfortable & stopped the child handling his penis.

The whole thing is utterly distressing. There's one post where a mother talks about using duct tape to "tuck". Horrific.

My heart really breaks for those children. I don’t know how you would ever unpick that and process it later in life. They must be so confused. They are far too young to possibly understand.

I only had a quick look at this yesterday so came back for a better look. I was thinking of a suitable way to express my utter horror at how deeply abusive this is towards these poor kids, but DS11 came in and asked me what I was oh my godding and jesus christing at. I didn’t tell him, I couldn’t possibly tell him, because it’s just too fucked up to tell an 11 year old child, I just said it was something silly on the internet. That pretty much illustrates what I was intending to say. It’s too disturbing to tell my own child, what these parents are doing to their much younger children is too fucked up to even tell my much older one.

These kids need to be removed from their parents for their own good, and the parents need locking up.

Jesus. I'm still struggling with this.

Jeanette Jennings knows how Jazz Jennings' life has got increasingly worse. Whilst Jeanette is being applauded for it.

It's the Susie Green School of I need younger children to validate the decisions I made over my own child.

What frightens me is there are so many people invested in this, that blowing it wide open is going to be comprehensively resisted.

profiles of mothers of children abused by their fathers who denied any knowledge of the abuse.

This rings true. Sometimes mothers who are in denial about the real cause of their children's distress (abuse) will try to attach it to something (anything) else e.g. organic mental health issues, developmental issues, or them being trans.

It helps them to feel less guilt about their distressed kid to imagine the issues lie in the kid, not the kids environment at home or elsewhere. The guilt about not protecting their child - even if actually they couldn't have done any different because the circumstances were out of their control. Mothers always seem to carry an extra burden of responsibility and to imagine themselves to blame even for what isn't or wasn't their fault. So focusing on their child's gender dysphoria is them putting the attention elsewhere maybe.

In some cases though it will be narcissism, or else just a reaction to group pressure of "do what is "right" for your child" (even when it's not right).

Pure speculation, but Susie Green and Jeanette Jennings, both strike me as women who would not be in the slightest bit comfortable taking a back seat

Not incidentally, 4thWaveNow also mention in the comments that Jazz Jennings' mother is a moderator on this forum.

Strewth. Any vestige of empathy I might have had for that woman has now fucking died.

The mother becomes special not boring; the child is bound to her very very tightly.

I read a survey, a few years ago, about the profiling of the parents of trans children.

The mother was often someone who had been fairly successful, even the breadwinnner, but when motherhood arrived, they found themselves unlistened to and unimportant.

It was speculated that it was a way to become pivotal, important, and listened to, once more.

Those mothers are congratulating each other for being special, brave and stunning.

Many of those children will struggle to live independently later: their real mental health issues are not being tackled, they are medicalised, they rely on their parent enabling them to have the correct identity.

The mother becomes special not boring; the child is bound to her very very tightly.

I bet we all know underachiever angry women who manipulate and live through their children, albeit at lesser levels than these abusive parents. I tend to thing of them as kind of the incels of the mothering world. I can imagine some I know getting caught up in / groomed into this stuff.

I believe there is some research that suggests (although obviously not conclusively) that there might be a link between male homosexuality/GNC traits and a having number of older brothers.

This is the case with my 3 DS's the youngest is very much GNC the older two not all. Of course anecdata is not data and all that.

I think there was some science behind it - something to do with conditions in the womb/maternal hormones after multiple male births.

Of course the environmental factors of many mothers wanting child no 3 to be a girl could also be at play. In my case I had a daughter first before the 3 boys so never gave much thought to the sex of the last two.

It would be really interesting to know, whether there is a pattern in which children this is done to.

I am thinking specifically about some of the best known examples, where the mother of 3-4 boys decides that the youngest is a girl.
Of course that may be coincidence, and a sample size of three families doesn’t really tell us much, but it is concerning if this is indeed a pattern.

Another disturbing factor is that when a child is put on blockers, moving on to cross sex hormones, their brains do not mature, and they will in some respects remain mummys baby for ever. I am not really suggesting that the mothers know this and are doing it for that reason, but transing your youngest does make that child more closely bound to the mother, producing a very enmeshed relationship between mother and child, that is very unhealthy, but appealing to some mothers, perhaps especially wrg youngest children.

I think mums are in general more likely to advocate for their children.
It's always been mostly dads who chuck their sons out or disown them because they're gay.
And the mums sticking up for them.
It could be an exaggerated extension of that.

Look at those messages. That's why mothers are caught up as the primary drivers - we are the default caregiver, faced with incessant pressure from before we even conceive to do what is best, and by many different voices claiming authority.

Each of those threads of messages are women conditioned to acquiesce to a crowd. They have all started from different points, but all have been skewed onto a trajectory that has taken them far away from responsible parenting.

It's a combination of peer pressure, giving certain strong characters authority, and a desire for a sense of admiration from others for themselves.

In recent years we've seen this stuff starting to infiltrate whole families.

It starts with one child per family but I've started reading about families with multiple trans siblings or a parent and child combo and it the most extreme cases the entire family, both parents and all kids have become trans.

It's nuts.

We now live in a society where if your child tells you they hate their body and feel uncomfortable in themselves, you are supposed to say "Of course, that makes sense, let's try to fix your body" rather than "You are perfect just the way you are".

Anyone encouraging their child to believe that their body is 'wrong' is a straight up abuser. Even worse is putting that idea in their heads to start off with.

I saw this stuff years ago. It has been going on for a long time. These people are sick.

That is interesting Barbarian. I agree. Mothers are perhaps easier to manipulate with the “ you have to support your child at all costs” line, because that has been seen as more their role than a father’s.
I also think some of these mothers fall into Munchausens territory, and enjoy the attention and sympathy a trans child brings. They feel special.