4thWaveNow has some incredibly disturbing stuff from Facebook

This sounds mean, that isn’t my intention, but whenever I have seen mothers with tiny “trans” children being interviewed on tv, i am struck by the general lack of intelligence. There isn’t much critical thought, or depth. They have that culty blankness, the trotting out of the same lines. I wonder whether many of these mothers are fairly gullible ? Less likely to question, or to have strong opinions ?
There is also the prevailing culture, either very macho, as in Yorkshire, or extremely liberal (Brighton) , which perhaps influences parents generally.
I have been mulling it over today, as a girl in dds class, aged 15, has suddenly declared she is trans. She is autistic, dd thinks possibly she is lesbian. She is going to start wearing a binder apparently. I find it absolutely heartbreaking. Dd says that she is lovely, and is upset about it.

To be fair I think it's a bit more nuanced than "mothers are behind transing children"

When you look at prominent trans activists like Jackie Green and Paris Lees, their stories are almost identical that the father in their life abandoned them as a child for being gender non conforming. Both talk/cry emotionally about having their "girly" toys and clothes thrown away by dad as a child.
Aimee Chanellor, undeniably influenced by an abusive father.
In all cases it is reported the father then wholeheartedly accepted that they really had a girl trapped in a boys body and accepted their child again rather than accept having a gnc child.

I feel as though (as unlikeable a character Susie Green is) the mothers of these boys were desperately trying to help them in the way they truly believed was best.

Father's influence seems to be brushed under the carpet in many cases of trans children as the mother is always on the front line in a child's upbringing.

NRFT but, why mothers? Imo motherhood has been fetished so much in the last 15 or so years. Women seem to angst over attachment/working/baby led weaning/breastfeeding/schools and on and on. Motherhood as vocation, and you mustn't make mistakes because it will fuck up the children ! Maybe that leads mothers to make utterly hysterical decisions? (And yes I do know the origin of hysterical).
Personally I think parents who make money off their kids on you tube should be prosecuted so you can imagine what i think of people who buy 3 year olds packers and feed them hormones..

I suspect there are very astute lawyers in America, Canada and probably the UK too watching all this and planning how they are going to make their millions from the lawsuits that will be inevitable in 20-30 years time when these poor children are adults and realise what has been done to them.

I do hope that at some point as a nation we are going to be collectively appalled that this was allowed to happen and I really hope that day comes sooner rather than later. Applause to those who are exposing this.

Thanks @OldCrone I should have searched myself I did look for a thread when I first read the article and didn’t find one. Guess I was too quick off the mark!

Thread here, Haworthia.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3524640-Bloody-hell-BBC

And the BBC is posting nice affirming articles about that poor Autumn who appears to be providing a career path for his mother

Was there a thread about Autumn? Because I read that article and was horrified. Nice that the mother is writing a book about what a great person she is though. And the make up!

Where has this idea of being 'led by the child' come from? Children should be protected by their parents from doing things that they don't have the maturity needed to make a rational decision.

Agree with Captain.
Also, the parents who say they are "Led by the child" in facilitating transition are probably just seizing on normal
child behaviour such as interest in stereotypically opposite gender clothing/toys/interests, confusing third person pronouns as "signs" their child is trans and overlooking all the "normal" gender behaviours- confirmation bias in other words.
It's totes Munchausen's by proxy and/or competitively woke parenting.
None of my kids were particularly aware of differences between boys and girls until they went to school. Then from the age of about 6 upwards they went through a phase of "hating" the other sex and primarily forming friendship group with their own sex at school. I suspect that any kids who don't fit that pattern, don't fit into the same-sex friendship groups at that age and don't go through that intense rejection of the other sex could easily be picked off as gender non conforming and therefore trans. When they are actually just kids but don't quite fit the social norm.

Yes, I am quite sure the vast majority of parents abusing their kids like this don't have a clue that's what they're doing. The 'professionals' are absolutely culpable.

But I don't actually think most abusive parents are consciously abusive. I think it probably a rare psychopathic parent that abuses their child like this consciously - the vast majority of parents who are doing this are not twisting their villainous moustaches as they deliberate choose to harm their kids.

The parents who kill their babies by feeding them home made formula milk which is just water, flour and grpund ip vitamin pills aren't doing it because they are villains, they believe they are doing their best. They are misguided and wrong, and they are abusers and must be stopped.

ChattyLion great post.

I will write to my MP about this. I’ve not over-pestered her as she is on side and I wanted to wait until it was really important before I put pressure on her to get something done - this is the most important thing out of all of this sorry mess. I will not stand by while children are abused like this. What about a new thread with some ideas of what to include in a letter on this issue?

Totally get it that individual parents feel stuck between a rock and a hard place on this and they will do anything to help their kids. Also that other parents have mental health problems of their own and are abusive. Which is usually when we look to health professionals and peer support of voluntary organisations to help.

But in this case: because narcissistic boundary erasing TRAs seem to be running all the peer support and voluntary organisations, and the TRAs are putting pressure on NHS health professionals (a line of argument which is in turn supported by other well meaning professionals who have been taken in by misrepresentation of what the law demands or allows, or just want to be ‘woke’) .. now the NHS professionals, who should be able to support and treat children and anyone who needs mental health support, also feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. So they start ‘affirmative’ practice.

And private sector charlatans prescribe affirmatively while taking no overall responsibility for the children’s health, simply because they can make money out of it. NHS will pick up the tab later.

We can’t leave the care of kids and support of parents to Facebook groups and political activists. The NHS needs to be resourced to provide reliable timely evidence based professional support.

I think we need to write to MPs presenting the evidence we have been discussing on here for the past few years in relation to children (take your pick- there’s all too much of it) asking them to demand a Health select committee inquiry into what is going on in the care and support of children. This will recommend proper mental health support for children and parents.

After that Inquiry reports and MPs have considered what has emerged, (very important in itself) then the government (the department of Health) then need to bring forward for debate in Parliament, new regulatory powers to provide case by case regulatory oversight of doctors prescribing medical hormonal or surgical interventions on any child and young person under 25.

IANAL but I would assume that current law would have measures to deal with sexualisation of small children by mucking about with their genitalia using duct tape or making them wear prosthetic penises (Jesus Christ- horrible writing that)- but if there isn’t that should be rolled into these powers too.

We need sunlight and legal powers, urgently. MPs will get this. A scandal is building and MPs will not want to be on the wrong side of it.

Well that's all very horrifying

Not sure if the parents are:
Thick
Brainwashed
Or just have munchausens by proxy

There's some real cognitive dissonance going on as well. The trans children I know both also choose when and what they eat, very child led. Parents will say - with no irony - that they don't want to give them body issues by forcing vegetables on them. Complain about school lunches or healthy eating lessons. The people who transitioned their child at four genuinely think that five is too young to think about healthy eating, in case it leads to eating disorders.

This has confirmed something that's really worried me about the recent BBC articles about trans children. There is no description of dysphoria. I wish supporters would step back & think about the implications of that. What is the reason for all this if there's no dysphoria for most of these kids? What do the suicide stats mean if we accept the vast majority of these children are not dysphoric? How the hell is it considered transphobic to even ask these questions?

It's getting more and more clear that extremist transactivism acts as a magnet for the maladaptive, isn't it?

We see male pattern abusive behaviours within it in exaggerated proportions to the population at large.

And we're seeing abusive tiger/helicopter/Munchausens parenting within it in exaggerated proportions to the population at large.

In all other areas and settings, we recognise these maladaptive behaviours as harmful, which they are, and attempt to control and minimise them. Why not here? When will TPTB even notice, let alone act? Why do we suddenly pretend that the decades of safeguarding knowledge and practice we have built up no longer apply?

This is just so repulsive. I feel sick at heart reading these posts about brainwashing children into a belief that their bodies are wrong and that they therefore must repress what is there and eventually mutilate them. These are small children. It's horrific that they are led to believe their bodies are bad, it just goes against all we know about building up self esteem and good mental health outcomes, surely? If a child is told at three years old that he should 'hide himself away' because he is really a girl, he is going to believe it because it comes from those he trusts. These poor children have no chance.

I'm thinking about two women I know who have trans kids. One has been through an awful time, abusive relationships, a lot of loneliness. She's felt like it's been her and her child against the world from day one, so would do anything for that child. The child has had a lot of mental health issues from very early on and at around 13 decided they wanted to be the other gender. Since then the mum has been like a bulldozer, pushing against any resistance and standing with her child. She truly believes she is doing the best thing for the child and would be devastated if she was told it wasn't in the child's best interest at all. The other is a very 'alpha' mum - think committees, high profile, very very pushy, at the centre of everything. The child here has claimed to be the other sex from early on and the mum has pushed things through for them at school.
I think they both truly believe they are doing what is right, and just haven't been able to understand the darker side of it all. In the first case the child has threatened suicide so I really do understand why the mum is so insistent: she is terrified. The whole thing is just so incredibly sad. And I can't help thinking if this child had been given appropriate support for her mental health issues instead of being affirmed and made 'special' things would look different. The child is still struggling greatly after transition

I feel devastated for these children and all the others like them, and even more so for those in these hideous links.

They don’t want us to draw back the rainbow glitter mermaid unicorn curtain, because they know full well behind that curtain is child abuse and children and young adults left with broken bodies and minds from what’s been inflicted on them.

Yes. I think this is so true.

Keeping up with the latest trends isn't what it used to be. The kids are fashion accessories to a "liberal identity".

A two year old signed "girl," instead of "boy," at a baby sign language class and they went all in - that's insane.

How do you even start that conversation with your partner/family and get them on board, it would sound mad. My DH and DPs would seriously worry about me if I changed DCs name and gender at age TWO after a baby signing mistake. Everyone else would just say "boy," and show them the sign. What is girl is easier to sign, like Dada is easier than Mama?

every so often while I'm just getting on with my life I remember that as a society we are medicating gender non conformity in children. As if it were a disease or a problem

and then the rage and despair take hold for a bit

I keep remembering that boy upthread who wants to explore his developing sexuality, and whose parents are chemically castrating him.

I hope they go to gaol.

Jesus wept, that last link. The woman whose three-year-old son wonders when his boobs are going to grow? And she is taking it as a sign that he is transgender. Despite him also asking when she's going to grow a penis. Does that mean she is transgender by proxy, for fuck's sake.

And all the others. It's about clothes and jewellery.

These people have been utterly brainwashed.

Someone asked last year where we thought this was all going. This is where.

Gender stereotyping being so entrenched that even a whiff of transgression will have you marched straight into a doctor's surgery.

Because it's happening now. Today. To hordes of children. Not just one or two.

Jesus.

Quite. All this mealy mouthed "It's so complicated, we can't judge parents in a tough situation".

Bollocks to that. It's not complicated at all.

If, as a parent, you are buying items from sex shops for your kids, giving your kids development stunting drugs and insisting they take them even when it is clearly interfering with their functions and they don't want to, or taping down their genitals with duct tape, you are not someone responding to a complicated situation who should be cossetted in your difficulties.

You are an abuser who needs to be stopped quickly.

So it seems to me that these young girls aren't embracing being boys, so much as rejecting being girls, which I know has certainly been mentioned on these forums. It's more to do with not wanting to grow up as a female in a misogynistic society, rather than actually wanting to be male.

Yes, exactly.

I really don't think it's difficult to follow this line of reasoning, either. In fact it's fairly obvious.