Women can rise up without dragging men down

Yes, many men realise that equality means losing their inherent privilege - why do you think so many of them hate feminism?

I agree with you. I think men would benefit in many ways from a more equal society, but yes they will 'lose out' on some fronts where they are currently overrepresented.

It's also very male-centric in it's view of power and 'status' - as I understand it, feminism is not about women just getting ahead in the rat race better.

From my perspective, feminism is about liberating women from a system that is stacked against them, so that we see through the scorn that 'women's work' garners. It's the very fact that men would consider it 'dragging them down' to be doing 'women's work' that is part of the problem. The fact that no value whatsoever is placed on so much of women's labour is the heart of patriarchy's crushing boot on us.

It's a vicious cycle. The jobs that tend to fall to women have low status, and therefore women are deemed to have low status, and those jobs are deemed appropriate for those with low status. So men, conditioned to pursue 'high status', eschew those jobs as 'women's work' and round and round we go on the gender merrygoround.

I feel that equality will only target toxic masculinity though, because that's the problem isn't it?

Men automatically being dominant, being powerful, being the decision makers and high flyers.

In an equal world, the decent men won't miss out. That's kind of the point I think.

Men and women being equal, surely the only people who would disagree with that principle are the ones who would lose out and therefore benefit from inequality.

No, I get what you're saying. It is basically true that if feminism 'succeeds' men will have to lose privilege, status and power.

I understand why people want to make feminism seem palatable and non-threatening to men, and I truly do believe that the liberation of women will benefit men in some ways, but it's quite obvious that male supremacy benefits males.

Again, Grimbles has it.

I also agree that diminishing toxic masculinity benefits everyone, not all masculinity is toxic BUT toxic masculinity is beyond damaging.

Sometimes there is a limited number of opportunities or amount of influence available and women stepping up does mean that men must step down.

That's just buying into the assumption that men are 'entitled' to that position in the first place.

Generally if women gain,men as a class gain because toxic masculinity isn't good for men either. Getting rid of gender stereotypes would benefit children of both sexes, who could grow up to be themselves. Those with entrenched power based on misogyny might be less thrilled and want to prevent it of course.

"when all you've known is privilege, equality feels like oppression"

Nobody is dragging men down, and as Grimbles says, that kind of thinking is part of the problem.

Nobody gave a shit when it was women being deprived of opportunities because we're women. But now all of a sudden men are being "dragged down" because women want equality? No, that's not the case at all.

The thinking that a woman achieving something is depriving a man of that thing is part of the problem.