Grayson Perry irks me

The behaviour and the attitude?

So unwanted sexual conduct is OK if it's polite?

What?

Sexual assault or harassment comes under "behaviour".

I don't have a problem with Grayson Perry.
I don't have a problem with Philippa Perry either.

The behaviour and the attitude?

So unwanted sexual conduct is OK if it's polite?

I do remember a woman who must’ve been early 20s who would wear the same dress every year on her birthday - since she was tiny (so it was more of a vest by the time I met her!) that was ‘art achool’.

Jeans with (genuine) singe marks and paint splashes - ‘art school’.
Mad jewellery that you had made yourself - ‘art school’.
Mad haircut that your mate did - ‘art school’.
Tantrumming because males can’t use the women’s loos NOT art school.

Exactly Jessica. Men like Perry who respect the boundaries aren't a problem.

I take issue with how a man chooses to dress when it's a sex act. Perry admits it is. He was on Have I got news for you recently. There were five people working. One of them was overtly engaged in a sexual activity. For the other four this may or may not be unwanted sexual conduct. Did anyone ask for consent?

I was at art school when the tide and fashion parade started to turn. It was well accepted you just wore what you wanted at fund raising parties and it became quite competitive but there was definitely a thing that you also had to look cutting edge on a daily basis. Might have also just been students generally though.

I went intending to wear only jeans, leggings, dms and big jumpers and found it hard to suddenly be in that fashion show. After the first year though yes, you were generally covered in acid splashes, plaster and all manner of toxic substances.

I don't get queer theory because imo artists have always messed about with clothing.

I find his art extremely good though. I guess I've started to look at his outfits with a little more critical thought. I don't know enough about him to make a judgement.

I'll just use this opportunity to promote Art Activist Barbie on twitter again though shining a light on sexism in art. Not sure she's gone near him yet though...

Yep @JessicaWakefieldSVH, Perry does not demand that he IS a woman and does not go after women's rights and spaces.

Still not sure I'm comfortable with dressing as his version of a woman for sexual thrills

I agree with that, but my understanding is that his "alter ego" is more of an artistic creation than a private sexual fantasy and not really "his version of a woman" as he doesn't claim any kind of definition of womanhood or do anything to suggest that's how he sees women. He doesn't tend to talk about the sexual nature of dressing up as Claire, but about what it says in terms of masculinity. As someone else said, he's kind of a campaigner for men's rights, in the sense of opening up maleness beyond stereotypical masculinity. I'm not saying there's not a sexual element for him; he is a transvestite and it's a sexual fetish as I understand it. But I think more importantly, he is an artist, and he uses this mode of dressing as a form of artistic performance and a way to undermine masculinity.

If you can find them, I really recommend his documentaries on being a man. He goes into various hyper-masculine environments and produces art work in response. They are really, really good. I think he's a tremendous artist too. I've seen some of his ceramics work up close and they are just amazing.

I like Perry's work a lot, and think he's an intelligent, coherent artist who I really respect for his ceramics. But I agree with OP to some extent.

For years I've thought his Claire persona has nothing to do with a female nature in him. It's more like a child's toy that he identifies with. A dolly. He has a toy fixation anyway; his guru is his teddy bear from childhood, Alan Measles, who he has built a portable temple for.

I wish he'd examine what Claire really is in a more honest way. He has mentioned (in passing) that Claire isn't really his female self, but his ostentatious, liberated creative self, and he knows 'she' isn't female in any meaningful sense that a woman could relate to.

But I haven't come across evidence that he gives much thought or importance to how damaging it is to women to see transvestites perpetually parody and ridicule us. Blacking up isn't acceptable. I'm not sure why baby-dolling is. Perry's childhood was horrendous. He's still working it through.

DoctoressPlague the difference is he is NOT asking to be treated like a woman, he does not consider himself a woman, he does not invade women’s spaces or seek our positions. He’s simply dressing feminine. Women don’t own femininity and I am puzzled as to why anyone would take issue with the way a man chooses to dress. That’s all it is.

What is the difference between transvestites like Perry and a male banking executive who wants to be treated as a woman on Wednesdays and Thursdays and happily accepts a place on a list of 100 top business women (and calls women who objected to his nomination 'terfs')?
I don't think it's gender identity.

He did post, quite recently, a Tweet of him dressed as a women in the men’s Loos. He stated he would never enter a ladies loo just because he had a dress on.

I like him, his programmes on Masculinity are very good.

I like him. As stephscaddy says, he is very clear that he is a man who cross dresses. He knows that his alter ego Claire (not sure if this is the correct word, apologies if it isn't) is a stereotype rather than saying this is the right way to be a woman. He and Phillipa Perry come across as a couple who support and value each other. Found this interview in which he talks about ageing, cross dressing and identity. It's quite old so his views may have changed.

www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiZv-nlqPfgAhVNzoUKHejDDqQQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fartanddesign%2F2014%2Foct%2F04%2Fgrayson-perry-dress-tranny-art-who-are-you-tv&psig=AOvVaw0MRVKX-r-4-YRoZr34vrfd&ust=1552298531740528

mammoon thank you, I’m going to get that book!

I think he’s a really interesting, thoughtful, insightful artist. With a nuanced and progressive take on gender politics. Have heard him give a lecture a couple of times (dressed as Claire) and it was just great. I have no doubt that he’s gender critical (while compassionate towards the vast majority of trans people as opposed to trans activists) but doesn’t want to step into this awful debate. Which is a shame because I think he’d be great but anyone sentient can probably figure out what he thinks.

There is plenty of feminist critique of drag / transvestism, not sure why you think otherwise.

If you are saying why don't feminists single out GP personally for criticism I think that's a different question and a silly one tbh why attack one individual? Rather than critique a behaviour that is practiced by lots of people.

Anyway in general GP seems like one of the good guys, I read a super long article he wrote about toxic masculinity, it was interesting articulate and to me fascinating to read what a male, one who is a bit of an outsider to male norms, makes of it all.

I object to narcissistic males encroaching on women’s spaces and opportunities. I don’t see that with Grayson Perry. I don’t see his art or how he lives his public life as a men’s rights campaign.
Well, not as the kind of men’s rights campaign that is destructive for women.

I think he’s thought a lot about the problems of masculinity for men and talking about it in a public way which is welcome. A different kind of campaigning that’s probably very positive for some men.

Of course there are male and female clothes, broadly speaking.
Doesn't mean people can't cross dress. It also doesn't change your sex when you do.