Grayson Perry irks me

I just think there are bigger fish to fry.

Me too. Perry’s doing good things for men. That will help some women. Like doing good things for women helps some men.

And I think that dressing people shouldn’t be connected with convicted child rapist child torturers, simply because they are cross dressers.

I think some posters do. The everyone can wear what they want mantra isn't always upheld logically on FWR.

Yes, I am discovering this. How odd.

Men who admit it's a fetish turning up in their femme get-up at work - yes.

Why? It’s not hurting you.

What about women who wear men’s suits who say it’s a fetish? Ok or not?

Do you have an issue with cross dressing generally?

I think some posters do. The everyone can wear what they want mantra isn't always upheld logically on FWR.

nora

can I just say I adored Gallery too - I thought I was the only one who remembered it.

I found Magi Hambling fascinating and still love her now.

Sorry for the detail...!

Do you have an issue with cross dressing generally?

Generally - no. Men who admit it's a fetish turning up in their femme get-up at work - yes.

I'm not convinced he's performing his fetish when he publicly dresses as Claire

He says he gets a sexual kick out of cross-dressing - why do you think the Claire persona isn't part of it?

I don't know if he does or doesn't. I don't care. It isn't overly sexual- the costume more than covers the bits that need to be covered in public.

He says he gets a sexual kick out of cross-dressing - why do you think the Claire persona isn't part of it?

Do you have an issue with cross dressing generally?

I think Claire is a damning indictment of patriarchy, but not of GP. I think he is as aware as anyone of the problematic way women are seen.

I think maybe I don't particularly care if it is sexual. People being sexual openly in the public eye doesn't bother me that much.
If he was on the same women's hospital ward as me-yes then in would bother me.
Maybe Maggi Hambling was turned on by wearing a moustache? I probably don't care.
I just think there are bigger fish to fry.

I'm not convinced he's performing his fetish when he publicly dresses as Claire.

He says he gets a sexual kick out of cross-dressing - why do you think the Claire persona isn't part of it?

I'm not convinced he's performing his fetish when he publicly dresses as Claire.

Me neither. Regardless, it isn’t overtly sexual IMO.

But it’s not obviously sexual attire to me, or most people. It’s harmless. If he gets a kick out of people who are so rigid they get freaked out by a man in a dress, so what?

OK so whoever complained about my post, you are part of the problem.

I'm not convinced he's performing his fetish when he publicly dresses as Claire.

I think he's a costume kind of guy, Lycra when cycling, jeans when potting, rag doll when wanting to annoy people in public.

Honestly, I'm fascinated by how much people will hypothesise arty and liberal motives for Perry when he has quite clearly explained over and over it is sexual

So ? I don't care. I'm still not offended by it.

Of course men we like can be judged as behaving inappropriately. As I said, I'm a fan of his and I think what he contributes is valuable. I also said I am very willing to consider what people have said and to follow links etc. I'm happy to reconsider my views if the evidence supports this, and I hope others would do the same.

I think you're reading a bit much into my phrasing there. It wasn't intended to dismiss anyone's views. I've taken against lots of men myself, for very good reasons. Perhaps it's a regional/dialect thing.

Honestly, I'm fascinated by how much people will hypothesise arty and liberal motives for Perry when he has quite clearly explained over and over it is sexual.

I don’t feel uncomfortable seeing him dress as Claire. I find it fun and refreshing. He isn’t trying to be like me or offend me. He is expressing a part of his personality which he is entitled to do freely

My thoughts exactly. If everyone is supposed to be free to wear whatever they want you (general you) can't police what he wears.

There used to be an arts quiz show called ‘Gallery’ in the 1980s hosted by George Melly. Artist Maggi Hambling was a regular guest - she always wore ‘masculine’ suits & ties/cravats etc. On at least one occasion she sported a stuck-on moustache, which apparently freaked the producer out. At around 12 years of age I found her slightly unnerving, but completely fascinating as well. By 16 I was following her example & wearing men’s 1940s suits & shoes...minus a moustache!

At first I think Perry’s ‘Claire’ outfits irked me a bit, but on a purely visual level isn’t he simply fucking with our expectations of what men ”should” look like, in the same way that Maggi was?

"Fame has come with costs. For him, part of the appeal of cross-dressing is the sexual kick. “Humiliation is a massive turn-on,” he says. “One of the things it’s ruined for me is that I’m no longer the anonymous pervert walking down the street. Before it was quite fun being the weirdo everyone stared at. Now I’m Grayson Perry. [The public] are not going to shout ‘fucking poof’, they’re more likely to say: ‘Oh, it’s Grayson Perry, mate, like on the TV’.”

amp.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/dec/14/grayson-perry-im-no-longer-the-anonymous-pervert-walking-down-the-street

I have read his book, and seen his work. I've read his explanations of his autogyneaphilia.

How is this "taking against him"? He has explained all this himself.

This is the problem isn't it? Men we like can't be judged as behaving inappropriately, the women saying it's inappropriate are "taking against" them. They are in the wrong. Give a fetishist an MBE or a woman's award and women who complain are "taking against" them.

He's told us exactly what he's doing. Believe him.

I think GP is a sound bloke and a thoughtful artist.

Wrt your overall point though op, I agree about the "hideous parody" aspects of drag queens. There's an unspoken misogyny there.

Has GP answered questions about that? I'd be interested to know what he said on the subject.

It's a difficult one. I found Lily Savage and Les Dawson funny at the time they were performing. So the (age old) question is, at what point does humour tip over in to being offensive? Would Les Dawson's mother-in-law act be deemed offensive nowadays? I've no doubt I would find some aspects of it extremely sexist (especially as I am a fat middle aged woman with a large bust myself now ).

Hopefully we are moving towards humour that is more aware and nuanced, but in some ways, while comics have become more politically correct, for reasons I don't entirely understand, out there in the real world, sexism has got even worse.

I don’t feel uncomfortable seeing him dress as Claire. I find it fun and refreshing. He isn’t trying to be like me or offend me. He is expressing a part of his personality which he is entitled to do freely.

I know exactly what you mean Trousering. Perry has publicly admitted that it's a fetish and he enjoys the humiliation, so when he turns up as Claire, people who work with him are participants in his fetish. In that sense I don't see any difference between Perry and someone like Bunce, other than the fact that Perry doesn't dress up his fetish with bullshit about 'gender fluidity' or coerce others into pretending that he is a woman. But in terms of the transgenderism debate, the Grayson Perrys aren't a problem, and I don't think their behaviour can be 'policed' - but it shouldn't be celebrated either.